Wong on Dice

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by DeMango, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. TDVegas, Oct 18, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Right...which is why I said it doesn't matter what the table or surface is....

    Yeah...I don't need a book on operating instructions for 2 dice.

    If your OWN words are true...it should not matter what the table surface is. You said it. "Nothing to do with surface".

    One should be able to apply dice speak to bubble craps, kitchen table craps, or schoolyard craps.

    Is there a schoolyard version with swearing and foul language? I might be interested in those dice. Ya know...as a prank.
     
    #21
  2. Craps Poopshoot, Oct 18, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    So, Demango ... Still sniffing glue?

    I think Stanford Wong in the above interview with Bob Dancer explains well why he wrote the book then later retracted his endorsement of Dice Control. Did you even bother to listen to the interview?

    Stanford does indicate that *some people* may have some talent in controlling the dice, however he cites that such a talent is needing lots of daily practice and regular casino play to be of any use or it decays and becomes useless. Even so, he also cites that person with aging issues may not be able to control the dice as perhaps once they might have.

    Anyway, I think Stanford wrote a book thinking he found an edge over a casino game then later changed his mind about that. I simply echo his words.
     
    #22
  3. KokomoJoe4, Oct 18, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    DM,

    Do you really need computer programs? Since we all know the expected frequency of each of the eleven possible numeric outcomes, why don't we just shoot a couple of hundred or thousand rolls from any one or even all of the permuted dice sets and record our outcome results?

    Perhaps a few of the starting sets will show promise.

    What's that you say? It doesn't matter how your rolls show when practicing at home? Does all of this practice need to occur on the specific tables you play on?

    That will make things a bit more difficult, unless you are the only shooter at the table. Still, with enough perseverance and attention to detail, you can probably get the same sort of results from live action, it will simply take a hell of a lot longer.

    In the end, I would not be surprised in the least if even your long-term data changed regularly with the input of more and more data. This is how randomness and variability operate.

    Don't be mad at me, but in the end, I believe your data will look a lot like the math predicts. Of course there will be some variability. If your data is better than expected and much better than my data, I have no problem with your description of self as an AP.
     
    #23
  4. Dave G Ct, Oct 18, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Info relayed to me from Heavy's board.Wong admitted he never practiced. He is well regarded as a Pair How poker player as well as Black Jack.
     
    #24
  5. DeMango, Oct 18, 2016

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Did you even read what Stanford just said? He has retracted nothing except his own abilities. You are the one sniffing glue!
     
    #25

  6. Liman

    Liman Member

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    demango, why are trying to convince me of something I don't believe in?
    just go to the table with your computer logs and DI skills and win money.
    why do you care what I think.
    I have total faith in the math of the game to expect wins now and then, and Im not afraid to gamble larger denomination chips.
    if I knew how to beat the game most of the time, or the bubble, this is the last place Id try to convince someone else.
     
    #26
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  7. Liman

    Liman Member

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    I don't need info relayed to me from anywhere. Me and Wong have something in common, we both never practiced.
     
    #27
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  8. Linaway, Oct 18, 2016

    Linaway

    Linaway Member

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    Well "little man",

    There you go again voicing an opinion with no substance behind it. Opinions usually are full of holes, credibility is believable. I've yet to read anything you've posted to be believeable!
    Seriously, Dice Speak might well be an enabler for how you bet.

    Speaking of enablers, you need a moniker that sings. "little man" rings true for stature but you need something with definition.

    AH HA! I've got it, "SHORT ROUND"! You consistently fall short of the target. Your explosive nature explodes doing no harm other than stirring up dust. Of course we realize your talents are limited to button pushing.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
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  9. Linaway, Oct 18, 2016

    Linaway

    Linaway Member

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    Hey Koko,

    My friend, using the computer on your shoulders? My O' My, this could start a fad and piss off Microsoft.;)

    Permuted dice sets? Progress is a wonderful thing. Next thing you know, some will ask for library cards so they can read the dice, ya think?:rolleyes:
     
    #29
  10. DeMango, Oct 18, 2016

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Koko; Yes to all your points. Practice at home involves the dice from pick up to landing. Results may indicate but do not predict results at other tables. So practice only helps you to impact point.
     
    #30
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  11. Linaway, Oct 19, 2016

    Linaway

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    Home practice brings you a basis of discovery to help you hone your skills.
     
    #31
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  12. TDVegas, Oct 19, 2016

    TDVegas

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    The problem with any practice is you are picking a location on the table. There's no way in hell you can guarantee getting that spot when you hit the casino.

    I still think a true DI would have a favorite table where he has noted his success.

    I can do that being 5 minutes from a casino. I don't know how the traveling crew can have ANY confidence when they leave for their trips that they will get their location on their table. I envision a lot of waiting around or having to get yourself up at odd hours---thereby not being 100% focused.

    Plus, once you are at the table...there should be no "honing of skills". It should be pretty much get it going from the start. If one has to hone...I mean really, are we talking about a worthwhile endeavor considering all the practice, infrequent play and such a thin margin claim (after table honing) of advantage????---coupled with needing a particular spot, getting ur ass out of bed at 4am, etc. ...?

    Is this a labor of love?...not profit. Sounds it.
     
    #32

  13. Liman

    Liman Member

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    this is the internet afterall, most of the fanatics find places to post up just how great they are, legends in their own minds.
    my guess is the ones that post instead of doing, 70-80 % of them have something to gain by posting here, whether its curry favor with their favorite school or instructor, trying to get individuals interested in signing on with their favorite school, trying to sell a device or book, or in some cases, just enjoy stirring the pot all the time for no other reason to make themselves seem powerful to themselves.

    as Ive said before, 100 times, if one can do all this jazz and make money at craps on a regular basis, why are they here trying to convince me and all the other non believers it works. Just do it. Laugh all the way to the bank.

    I believe DI is a very, very grey, or is it gray, area.
    There are a million excuses to make to oneself why it didn't work that day, and the day that same shooter gets on a hot roll, hes in his "zone" of DI shooting.
     
    #33
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  14. Craps Poopshoot, Oct 19, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    Oh, a well trained dice shooter may have something when they start shooting, however as their time at the table drags on, their ability to shoot the dice degrades. This then begs the question:

    If, and a big IF, you have some ability to influence the dice, then what should you influence the dice to, and how should you bet?
     
    #34
  15. Dave G Ct, Oct 19, 2016

    Dave G Ct

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    Good post. I will try to answer your question. If you toss PFH' s then it would make sense to bet the 4 & 10.If you just toss more numbers than random then I will go with the 6 & 8' s. Some shooters may put up a particular number that just occurs and he will bet it.
     
    #35
  16. Linaway, Oct 19, 2016

    Linaway

    Linaway Member

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    Ah come on, screw DI. It's a moniker many have picked up on to raise hell with the establishment of players that enjoy the game.

    Poopshoot, you know quite a bit about me from another board. I am a straight shooter. I don't play bubble craps and told my kids if any of them did I would have their ass.

    Do with my suggestion coming as you will. It works for me. Please read. Perhaps you will find something for yourself in the content. This stuff will work on any table practice or live.

    Handicapped Craps Players and Shooters is the post title.

    Some great player/shooters acknowledged this post positively while the usual naysayers didn't. I could care less about them. They will be those that walk away from the table we were on with empty pockets from playing the dark side against me.
     
    #36
  17. TDVegas, Oct 19, 2016

    TDVegas

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    You couldn't separate the "great shooters" from the "random chuckers" IF the basis is results. If a pretty toss and fluid mechanics is the basis...? Sure.
     
    #37
  18. Linaway, Oct 19, 2016

    Linaway

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    SHORTROUND,

    How do you distinguish great shooters from random chuckers since your game is a slot machine? In an effort to tend my business, I think you just lost your bubble machine to another bubble head. :confused:

    Be careful about your statement of a pretty toss and fluid mechanics, TT123 might be watching. Are you mocking him?
     
    #38
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
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  19. SevenOut, Oct 25, 2016

    SevenOut

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    Stanford Wong could be a Curator of Gamblers. A Gaming Zoo, of sorts.

    Much like the large Zoos of the World, those who have the largest variety of animals in their Zoo, get all of the recognition and prestige. It is accepted that those with the largest gathering of plants, animals and spectators know everything there is to know.

    Same with those who write books. They collect a Zoo of Individuals. Those who follow these authors are part of their private Zoo and they become the Care Taker of this collection. To increase their prestige, they must add more variety to their Zoo.

    You, my friends, are the collection in these Zoos. You are fed what you like.

    Unless you are difficult to catch and cage... these Zoo Keepers must keep looking for a new trap. Resist, if you can. Those who you have to PAY to become part of the ZOO are on the wrong side of the cage.
     
    #39
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  20. Liman

    Liman Member

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    people want hope, they want to sooth themselves when they lose, make it as if there was a problem at the table, not 100% their fault, addiction is a terrible thing.
    how great is it they can find literature/books printed to prove their point to their loved ones or friends.
     
    #40
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