Why do Dice Chuckers... win without DI?

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by SevenOut, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. SevenOut, Jun 12, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Why do DI's lose?... thread could also say, Why do DI's win? For the same reasons that an experienced Craps Dice Chucker loses or wins at a Craps Table. Bankroll, Systems of Play and understanding the 36 possible outcomes of a pair of six sided dice.

    DI's understand and have a keen knowledge of Bankroll, Systems of Play and understand the 36 possible outcomes of a pair of six sided dice. That is understood and I have to accept this as fact, or DI would have no purpose other than a Slight of Hand show.

    DI's Lose because they have no more chance of predicting dice outcomes in advance, than a new Craps Player shooting a pair of Casino Dice for the first time.

    If there were credibility among the DI Crowd, they would recognize taking an accommodating role and assist those who doubt DI and produce results, that can be repeated, anywhere, on any length of Craps table, at any time, would be a positive position. Repeating this skill, at will, as an example of the Power of Dice Influencing. With, of course, the 'Deniers' observing and also providing a pair of Casino Dice of their own choice, if, at a home Craps Table. (Bias Dice is always an excuse of working against DI.)

    That is not going to happen. Of course, unless the DI requires a 'group of expected outcomes' to increase the possibility of an actual result, and decrease the rate of failure. This can be done by a pure Craps Novice and need not even be considered as proof. Predicting a 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9... to occur on a roll or even a 5, 6, 8 or 9 is not proof. That is the Dice Setting aspect of DI. That has a solid mathematical foundation, yet the delivery for consistent outcomes needs outside observation and verification by an outsider observing.

    Just by being able to avoid the SEVEN, after point is made, would change the fortunes of the Shooter, Players at a Craps Table and would also be the end of Casino Craps Tables as a table game. It has not happened. I have no expectations of this ever happening, but as fewer Craps Players gather at a table, only DI's will be left to play among themselves.

    Rhetorical remarks and questions have no value in mathematical Games of Chance, as facts. One cannot use their own facts to prove their results are due to a skill set they claim to possess. Even Albert Einstein had to be able to reproduce his mathematics to the physical world being proof of a Theoretical Existence.

    Excuses for DI's losses and their taking credit for wins... also have no credible merit.

    If DI works and is a true skill set... the Casinos would close down the Craps Pit, or lower the payouts and increase the minimum wagers. Or... put a Chuck-a-Luck Dice Cage in the center of the table to keep the game... Fair. Fair to the Casino. But that has already been provided. Bubble Craps.

    Considering the entire Craps Player population, not all are capable of understanding the mathematics of Basic Craps. Making another assumption, a majority have little understanding of why they play the way they do. Often some players wager at random and chase the Dice Outcomes from previous outcomes. By the time you consider a Craps Player with experience, knowledge of the structure of payouts and the House Advantages and capable of practicing for hours on a regulation Casino Craps Table... you are down to a... 5% of the Craps Population. Even at 10% of the Craps Population to qualify as a DI... Craps Players are a very small number of Casino Table Game Players. It is beyond the capacity of the vast majority of Casino Patrons... electronic gaming device players...
     
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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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  2. Twelve4s, Jun 12, 2017

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Where's the beef? It's in this post. Another hearty meal of reason. Thanks seven out for a cool breeze of sanity.
     
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  3. DeMango, Jun 12, 2017

    DeMango

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    The only way dice chuckers win is being at the far right of the bell curve, being a tough craps player.
     
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  4. KokomoJoe4, Jun 13, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    You can modify this slightly by including a willingness to take what the dice give you at come out and parlay all quick winners in an attempt to make them bigger quick winners.

    Why do this? Because 45% of all line winners come immediately, and we all know they often come repetitively.
     
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  5. twodicebilly, Jun 13, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Sevenout

    Exactly, a guy that always plays bubble craps would not have any understanding.

    Just to add why others win.....there are many more craps players that play for very high
    stakes that don't set the dice, don't give a shit...But that does not mean they are not good or
    real serious players...I have a friend here that has to much money....he plays all over the country
    and very often. His typical buy in is $800, then another $800, then another $800, than another $400
    and when that is gone he goes home.... On a casino trip it is $2000, then another $2000, then another
    $2000, when that is gone he goes to his room.

    He plays $25, 5 & 9, $30 6 & 8 and $25 fire bet. He takes the first hit then full press on each number.
    When he is very much behind he presses the fist hit on all numbers, then push and pull, and does
    not care how much he has on the table....He has enough money to stay at the table until the hot roll,
    and then no bet is to high....
    Now I don't know how he does over-all..none of my business... but a win of $10,000 -$15,000 at a session
    is common and one win this year at one session was $52,000.
    Now I think he is a good player, even though his approach is much different than mine. I admit there are
    times I wish I had his make up...but I don't.

    Funny thing is he never believed in dice setting....yet over the years we have played together, he wants to
    stand at SR1or SL1 and tries to make the very same shot each time....


    twodicebilly
     
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  6. KokomoJoe4, Jun 13, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    The most general correct answer to the question posed is "because numbers they are on are hitting often enough".

    Most have an idea as to the "goodness" of all bets on the craps table. This relates to the math of the game and to defined rules for payments made.

    That said, is midnight a bad bet if it has shown 4 of the last 5 rolls? Guaranteed you would like it if you were on it for those rolls.

    Since we know what has come but not what is yet to come, perhaps the fairest bets are the ones the math says are least disadvantageous. This depends on the rules defined for the table you are playing. Sure, a placed six is -1.52% and a line bet -1.41%, but a buy four might range between -0.85% - 5.76%, depending on the rules. Regardless, numbers must hit before they are paid.

    This is why you can and will lose playing a very strict game, while the guy next to you, hopping and playing nothing but mid-table sucker bets, has the dealer acting like a bulldozer, pushing him piles of chips.

    As a famous man (Grizzoola) once said, you win when your numbers hit.
     
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  7. MrB007, Jun 17, 2017

    MrB007

    MrB007 Member

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    If you are saying there is nothing to be gained by learning all there is available to know about DI and how to apply it (the acquired knowledge) then I gotta totally disagree with your summary.
    The phenomenon of DI is similar to anything that can be studied, researched and practiced and a learned skill set is acquired by due diligence. If you don't believe in DI, well you are inn the majority. Lol
     
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  8. Twelve4s, Jun 17, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    Is that you, James?
     
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  9. DeMango, Jun 17, 2017

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    (Corrected it for you)
    Thankfully so!
     
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  10. von duck, Jun 17, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Alright, who left the door open?if I've told you once I've told you a thousand times, if you don't keep the windows and doors shut, your gonna have DI's.
     
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  11. Liman

    Liman Member

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    none of your business? seems you play pretty close attention to his buyins and wins and losses, and betting strategy.
     
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  12. Liman

    Liman Member

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    Ive stayed at the inn the majority, bad pillows, lousy mattresses and no free breakfast.
     
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