Walking a very thin line

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by tabletop123, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. tabletop123, Aug 16, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Ok, now I am beginning to understand your plight a little bit better. Seeing that your home table/s have the same bounce characteristics as those you play on in the Casino's makes perfect sense.

    Didn't know you we're that meticulous with your play. I applaud you, because i can consistently beat my home table ( been playing on it for nearly ten years), but i do NOT have anywhere near the same bounce at the two Casinos I play at.

    I guess maybe I should move my play around a bit, & find more suitable tables. However, I do have several sheets of 1/8th inch closed cell foam on one end of my table & the bounce is so extreme that the dice periodically fly off the table from Stick left/right 1! Lol.

    My supposition is that IF ya practice on bouncy conditions, the transition back to Neutral-slightly bouncy should help your dice to lay down a bit better.

    You MUST toss EXTRA soft when tossing on closed Cell foam.
     
    #21
  2. twodicebilly, Aug 17, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    James

    That is my point......why do you play only on certain
    tables and the answer is you do better on those tables
    than you do on others..

    To me that follows the data I see. I average more rolls
    per hand on tables I like than I do on tables that don't
    fit me at all....In fact on tables that I don't like I will
    throw more 7's than a random guy would.

    It suggests under good conditions you can beat the HA and
    under bad conditions you cant.

    tsb
     
    #22
    James Hall likes this.
  3. James Hall, Aug 17, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    I don't play on tables that have more bounce than mine . It is difficult to impossible to do well . When we arrive in Vegas we park in Valet
    I grab a couple of beers from the cooler and while my wife goes in to arrange for a room I start scouting tables . I listen to the sound the dice make
    and watch the bounce , just to make sure nothing has changed since my last visit . If on a particular table it has changed I scratch it off .
    The game is tough enough without giving the casinos additional advantage .
    On one occasion in Vegas two of the Mesa guys showed up as I was scouting tables , I was standing in Harraha's when John and Randy approached
    Randy asked "are you going to play"
    I told him I was scouting tables , then explained why , He said "I didn't know there was a difference"
    We went into about 8 casinos to line out our day
    Several weeks Randy told me "Man it's amazing how much better it is when you know which tables to play"
    I totally avoid bouncy tables
     
    #23
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
    tabletop123 likes this.
  4. James Hall, Aug 17, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Now fi
    now find a table with the same bounce characteristic as yours and see what happens
    This game is very very difficult to the casual player but for people who spend the time , effort and energy to learn something and practice in the proper manner
    EVERYTHING CHANGES ,
    People are skeptical and that is understandable , those who can work thru that can do ANYTHING they want
     
    #24
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  5. James Hall, Aug 17, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Exactly , back early on , when I first got on this board a question came up about practice pads receiving stations and the like
    I got a lot of heat because I answered the question in the same manner I always do , "STRAIT TO THE POINT"
    I said those things are a waste of time , In an attempt to help , I went on to say , it is much better to have a table than those things because it is more
    like what you will be playing on in the casinos
    There are many places a person can buy tables but bein a stickler for , EXACT CONDITIONS I buy mine from casinos
    That way I am practicing under much the same conditions as I will be playing under
    Not everybody WILL do that , not everybody CAN AFFORD that , life's a bitch
    Some of the Mesa guys have purchased tables , there is a manufacturer here in Arizona about 10 miles from my house
    They build them to the same specks as my tables
    I make my table at my house available to the Mesa guys
    If I am not at home they have the code for the key pad on my front door so they can practice
    The guys here who practice the most do the best
    Keep working at it Two Dice , you are doing the right things
     
    #25
  6. The Midnight Skulker, Aug 17, 2017

    The Midnight Skulker

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    This turned out to be a little more of a brain teaser than I anticipated, and after spending the better part of my day making it more complicated than I think it needs to be I have opted to adopt the technique used in many of my school textbooks and leave it as an exercise for the reader. :p

    Just kidding :D, but I have opted to simplify my answer a bit. The question I am assuming you are posing is: If a DI wishes just to neutralize the HA (i.e. reduce it to zero) on a Place 6 bet how many extra sixes must he/she roll per a specified set of rolls? The first part of the answer is trivial -- and it took me only six hours or so to recognize it as such: at a payoff of 7:6 the bettor must average 6 wins (@ $7) to balance out 7 losses (@ $6) every 13 decisions, or a ratio of 5.142857142857... sixes to 6 sevens.

    Of course we could add two rolls to the Perfect 36 and say one was an extra six and the other was an extra seven, thereby bringing the ratio to the one necessary, but that (invalidly IMHO) assumes both rolls are being influenced, not just the one winner. Instead I am going to add one full roll to 36 * 7 = 252 rolls. Checking to see if that neutralizes the HA:
    (5 sixes * 7 sets of thirty-six rolls * $7) = $245 won
    (6 sevens * 7 sets of thirty-six rolls * $6) = $252 lost​
    That is a net loss of $7. Throw in a 253rd roll of six and VOILA, HA = 0. Hence, throwing one extra six in 253 rolls, roughly an hour of play by yourself with a decent crew, theoretically makes it a pick 'em game. (Wizzard of Odds gives 249 rolls per hour for a single-player table.)
     
    #26
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