# Playing to lose less? Playing to win ?

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by James Hall, Mar 28, 2019.

1. James Hall, Mar 28, 2019

### James Hall Member

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When you are rolling the dice for your come out roll ,
you at that moment have a 2 to 1 advantage over the house with 8 ways to win and only 4 ways to lose.

Once you have established the point that advantage is gone and the house now has the advantage

The dice will tell the tale
There are 11 numbers on the dice as we all know
There are 36 combinations of those 11 numbers

When you establish a point the casino in their unbound generosity will take 1 of the 11 numbers the 7
and give you the other 10 to play
of the 36 combinations they keep 6 and give you the other 30
so the house keeps 1 number with 6 combinations
and gives the player 10 numbers with 30 combinations
and still the unsuspecting player will throw away 20 of those combinations
retaining only 10 of the 20 and bet only the 6 and 8 and wonder why the game is so hard to beat

#1
Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
2. James Hall, Mar 28, 2019

### James Hall Member

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Which are you playing ???
The right game or the WRONG game??

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Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
3. Neverquit, Mar 29, 2019

### Neverquit Member

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So...what are you doing to play the "right game" Are you betting differently than most others?

#3
4. tabletop123, Mar 29, 2019

### tabletop123 Member

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Bet all the Box numbers for \$5- \$6, with a \$5 Hard 6/8, & if ya fu**k up, & toss a short hand, or PSO.....you WALK!!!

Any time that you " Walk" after a losing hand, it's not considered a loss, because you'll return later , & shoot the Casino's dicks in the dirt.

50 plus years of experience has taught the Talented Dice Influencer NOT to wager more than the table minimum. Why make more money making larger wagers, & tossing less numbers for a HUGE profit when ya can bet table minimum, & roll 20 numbers, & make less money? Lol

Say what?....You normally toss 10-20 roll hands with a TON of repraters, so it's not necessary to make large wagers with SAID skill?
The way in which you toss the dice produces a lot of repeaters? Lol

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5. James Hall, Mar 29, 2019

### James Hall Member

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I wouldn't say I play differently than most however
I do bet differently than many.

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6. DoubleTapDave, Mar 29, 2019

### DoubleTapDave Member

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Betting Across is the most fun and is certainly the most profitable when you are on a big roll. I tend to "take" after the first hit and then press after each additional hit on that number.

I Always bet the 6 and 8 , but do not Always bet across the entire board. On times where I only have the 6/8 and odds on my point I will add the other numbers after my first point or so.

The 6 and 8 have the highest probability And the lowest house edge. They need to always be bet especially using the 3V set. But I can not condone betting across the board every single roll especially when table conditions are not ideal. The House edge is simply too high to overcome on a consistent basis.

I would say I bet
6/8 and odds on the point - 65%
Bet Across the board - 35 %

If the point is 6 or 8 I will usually buy the 5/6/8/9. After 1-2 points or a few hits on the numbers I will spread across the board from there.

DOuble Tap dave

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7. TDVegas, Mar 29, 2019

### TDVegas Member

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No question. Only problem is the cart follows the horse, not the other way around. I see many players kill it on all across on a big or long roll.
I would agree.

I typically try and have the 6-8 covered either with a combination of pass/come and or place bets. 3 numbers working....max. Doesn't always work that way but I like having 1.52% and 1.41% covered.

While I've seen all across do marvelously well....as a regular, consistent play (I'm talking 2-3-4 times a week player)....those guys are getting crushed.

Guy flying into Vegas for a weekend once every 4 months wants to go with it...have at it. It's basically action on close to every roll. Might catch a rush. As a consistent, regular play. I can only say what I witness for the most part....which is ATM runs for players. Just too many bets at risk to the most common result. 7.

Not sure I've ever seen a craps lesson recommend all across. Super majority recommend 3 numbers in play with pass come and place bets here and there. 4.00 and 6.67 is getting up there.

#7
Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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8. James Hall, Mar 29, 2019

### James Hall Member

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Neverquit
Although tabletop's intent here was to ridicule and be insulting
he was pretty NEARLY RIGHT . If he were to EVER play
he would be well served to use this strategy or something similar.
The quote above is pretty close to my first downstroke / first bet.
Again fairly accurate. I don't bet on other players and I WILL NOT
stand at the table bleeding money betting on 10 to 12 other players
waiting for the dice to come back around . Tabletop would be better served
if HE TOO would adopt this policy into his betting strategies.
With only a \$5 loss on 10 other players adds up and makes it even more difficult
to win with the added burden of recouping those unnecessary losses.
This statement also made to ridicule also has a ring of truth.
or more lost on other players makes getting even much much easier
and a hell of a lot quicker.
Another statement made with the intent to demean but if applied in the proper
manner could result in larger wins rather than larger losses.
Being a trend player I have found it to be very profitable to
take FULL ADVANTAGE of the trends. As an example I
can place \$5 on the 9 and by my strategy on the 4th hit
I will have \$108 while TT and other such players would be
racking a total of \$28. Betting THEIR strategy to come out
with \$105 instead of the \$108 they would have to risk \$15 six times
while I am risking \$5 once. . What this comes out to is they
would , in the long run , be risking \$90 to win \$105
while I am risking \$5 to win \$108 .
For some reason TT and others feel their way is better.
This is where TT and others allow their thinking to become
so convoluted / wonky and one of the main reason why so many of
them have played years / decades unable to win. They just do
not understand the value of a ,
"FORCE MULTIPLIER" / "DUPLICATION".
TT and others will stand at a table and watch
someone have a roll with more than the expected 6 and
still swear up and down that it is not possible. It is a very
confined world they live in .
One has to wonder why such people even BOTHER TO PLAY
but they do.

#8
9. James Hall, Mar 29, 2019

### James Hall Member

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A fact that should be kept in mind when hitching a horse
to the buggy but has nothing to do with craps.
In craps we must think ahead.
I have seen this also which would indicate that the killed
player had to be absolutely clueless how to bet the big rolls.
A bit of effort to learn some sensible betting strategies might be in order.
The only reason for a person to LOSE ON A LONG ROLL
is playing the , "WRONG GAME" / improper betting strategy.
Wrong game .
Playing to lose less is definitely the way to meet your
goal the majority of the time. players who play to lose less
will most of the time LOSE less.

Craps is a , "RISK & REWARD GAME" It is damned difficult to
win more by risking less.
A great many players find it difficult to win because they never
have enough on the table working for them to do much good.

#9
10. James Hall, Mar 29, 2019

### James Hall Member

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How many craps lessons have you had??
Have you had any that weren't free?
You win more money by winning more money
not by losing less.

#10
11. James Hall, Apr 6, 2019

### James Hall Member

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Did you know that the , TURD TRAIN is driven by a magnet?
HOOT HOOT

#11
12. James Hall, Apr 6, 2019

### James Hall Member

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The right game is directed by betting
what the dice are giving you , betting the numbers that your throw produces.
A rule for the right game is to have enough money
on the table to do some good.
Playing the right game is playing by results not by the math.
Playing to win more not playing to lose less.

#12
13. James Hall, Apr 14, 2019

### James Hall Member

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A little earlier I was reading some old posts from back in 2011
Some guy says , "You don't need to get anybody to
teach you how to win at craps , you can teach yourself
by practicing"

Like many people , he was wrong on both counts

1) He sets out to teach himself , the question begged here
is , "How the hell can you expect to learn something
from someone who knows nothing about the subject material

2) You cannot practice anything you don't know how to do
therefore practicing to learn anything is an EXERCISE IN FUTILITY
second only to trying to teach yourself
or learning thru trial & error

Over the years as a golf professional I saw many golfers who
were absolute hackers who would not take lessons because
the pro charged for their time , so rather than cough up
a few bucks they solicited lessons from their friends (also hackers)
Not only did they see no improvement but things deteriorated
even further

Not only did they retain , ALL OF THEIR OWN BAD HABITS , now they added a few of their friend's / the other hacker's to boot

If you want to LEARN A SKILL find someone
who has already DEVELOPED THE SKILL
and get them to teach you
This will save you much ,
"TIME , EFFORT , ENERGY , AGGRAVATION"
and of course money in the form of unnecessary LOSSES

Having competed in 4 sports as a professional
I find this attitude that learning to win
is either a bad thing , unnecessary or impossible

Those who choose not TO LEARN
are normally stuck in a situation where improvement
becomes an impossible task . Simply stated
with the absence of skill there is nothing TO practice
consequently practicing to improve is in itself
an EXERCISE IN FUTILITY
that many will be saddled with for the remainder of their
life or until such time as the bankroll is gone
and they quit altogether
The attrition rate in craps by the way is quite high

#13
14. TDVegas, Apr 14, 2019

### TDVegas Member

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There’s really no way to certify that the person you “find” has any skill.

There’s no way to certify the person you “find” even wins more than he loses unless he provides some documentation (W2G or such)

There’s no records or ranking to investigate as in poker, golf, tennis, etc.
There’s no craps professional teaching organization that could even certify an individual.

Any teacher at this craft basically self certifies himself. All well and fine....but hardly a basis to use as “someone who has already developed the skill”.

In the end....there is no way to know or check if YOU have the skill, any skill.

#14
Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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15. James Hall, Apr 14, 2019

### James Hall Member

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Nothing in craps is guaranteed , Playing across guarantees only one thing and that is that you have all the point numbers covered
Simply put you have all 24 combinations of the point numbers covered rather than the 10 combinations that some prefer
which gives a person more opportunity to win
He has those 24 combinations working against the 12 the house has in their favor .
As apposed to the 6 and 8 bettors 10 combinations
In other words he doesn't take the 24 available combinations and give 14 of those combinations back to the house to be used against him
Put another way
The across player has 24 combinations working for him against 12 the house has working in their favor
The 6 & 8 player has 10 combinations working against 26 the house has
This is a portion of the , "PLAYERS MATH" players need , in an , "EFFORT TO WIN"

#15
16. James Hall, Apr 14, 2019

### James Hall Member

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Well then by gawd let's just start such an association.
Have some training programs , set up a standard by which all
instructors in the association should be required to go by
in order to maintain their certification.
Have re certification on a regularly controlled basis to maintain
a quality control standard.
I think I will pursue that idea , what would be a good name for
such an association. ??

#16
Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
17. James Hall, Apr 14, 2019

### James Hall Member

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Low HA bets pay the least, that is a big part
of the play to lose less game.

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18. HornHiYo, Apr 14, 2019

### HornHiYo Member

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Many consider giving up any 2 to 1 advantage rolls in craps sure ain't the right play.

Which are you playing???

#18
19. HornHiYo, Apr 14, 2019

### HornHiYo Member

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Trolling for suckers AGAIN!!

#19
20. HornHiYo, Apr 14, 2019

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