New Throw????

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dirtbag, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Onautopilot, Jul 12, 2016

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    The parameters are very easy to understand once you have put the effort into studying the concept. If you had done that, you would know that the concept is not applicable to any casino game!

    It requires a positive expectation bet to be incorporated in the concept, of which none exists in a casino game.

    And your claim that you concocted some such strategy at craps, that worked to give you a positive result, is in fact, BS....period!
     
    #101
  2. James Hall, Jul 12, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    endeavoring once again to mislead those minions of yours who agree with you that winning is an exorcise in futility are you ???
    your view of the whole thing is of course warped the theory some of these people were working on was in the possibility of taking
    two negative expectation situation and being able to derive from that the possibility of a positive result
    some of the researchers found some success with that as did we
    the combination of bets , several of them found some positive result , some more that others
    but because you seem to have a limited ability to understand , you derive the conclusions you do
    or perhaps you just consciously mischaracterize everything yo don't understand or disagree with
    I really just find it humorous that you spend so much time reading my posts and then trying to pick them apart
    You are going to have a ball with my book when we get it published at $29.95 plus shipping and handling
     
    #102
  3. James Hall, Jul 12, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    ed
    do you frequently speak from your anal port ??
    and when you do do your lips move??
     
    #103
  4. Edward-ky, Jul 12, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    Seriously are you retarded. You like my post then copy it and make a dumb as statement. This really must be a sock puppet of Harley.
     
    #104
  5. James Hall, Jul 12, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Ed
    actually no I am not
    second question I didn't like your post I peobably hit the like button by mistake
    and the dumb ass statement was not a statement it was two questions
    do you see the question marks
    so do you ??
    do they??
    now this will be a statement . You sure get excited
     
    #105
  6. Edward-ky, Jul 12, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    You make a ton of assumptions.
     
    #106
  7. betwthelines, Jul 12, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    Wrong, twelve

    he is an expert in generating a great "variety" of bs

    there is very little "Variance" from it...

    tom p
     
    #107
    Onautopilot and Twelve4s like this.
  8. betwthelines, Jul 12, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    ok, mr hall, i do not think you are an idiot...how'zhat?
    i apologize and am truly sorry that i too missed your explanation but wonder why a "lengthy" one would even be required since the question asks for "2 bets"...i would think that a 2 or 3 word answer would suffice...if i am wrong in this, i will tolerate any response, lengthy or not. as long as it directly answers the question...

    once again, what are those 2 bets?

    Tell me 2 negative expectation bets you can make to create a positive outcome...

    tom p
    ps if Edward-ky is wrong---tho the fact that you have already made two "explanations" suggests otherwise---and you deny actually making such a claim about 2 bets, well...i will believe you...i will believe your denial...simply state that and we need go no further...
     
    #108
  9. James Hall, Jul 12, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    BTL
    thinks for not calling me an idiot
    I am sure that over the years we were not the only ones to explore these possibilities but being curious by nature we gave it a shot
    several years ago there was a hypothesis forwarded that suggested that in some instances there might be a possibility of combining two different events each leading to a negative result and by combing them have the two combined events result in a positive result
    Some friends of mine and I started fooling around with that idea with a bunch of stuff
    in one of those efforts we would place a sum of money say $700 on the don't come
    then the dice rolled would come up on say the 4
    when the $700 travelled to the 4
    we would then place $500 on the 4
    if the shooter 7s out you would collect a $700 win on the DC4
    if the shooter throws the 4 you would lose your $700 DC bet
    but collect your place bet 4 at 2 to 1
    winning in either case
    thus two negative expectation bets culminating in a positive conclusion
    I also stated it is not a good bet because you risk so much for such a small return and the advantage to the house is very high

    We explored other such things some better some worse but found none to be viable
     
    #109
  10. betwthelines, Jul 12, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    MY APOLOGIES!!
    please ignore my previous post!
    (# 108) <<<edit: i see now that you have already replied & it is fine...i may even give it a "like"...ps you can "unlike" them if you think you made a mistake>>>
    i see now that you did later in the thread offer your "explanation" again (excerpted above)...& reckon that, yes, i have seen it before...thank you very much...

    frankly, i understand your explanation and its COMMON innumeracy to ignore the come out roll...all of the bets are negative expectation bets, of course, and you arrive at, IMO, the correct conclusion

    you are absolutely correct: one should normally avoid the bets...i personally would clarify that a bit to say that they are ok bets if they conform to you session objectives...adding that it is dangerous, occasionally even rude, to tell someone how they "should" bet

    tom p
    ps right. i do not think you are an idiot, merely innumerate and deluded, assignations that really say nothing about one's overall character...many are innumerate or, myself included, delusional about certain things, but may be great persons otherwise...
     
    #110
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  11. Twelve4s, Jul 12, 2016

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Thank you BTW. You are correct to correct my usage.
     
    #111
  12. Onautopilot, Jul 12, 2016

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    Good luck on the book!
     
    #112
  13. Freddyy, Jul 12, 2016

    Freddyy

    Freddyy Member

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    Here's a funny one, saturday i go with my GF to show her the game. Usually i do pretty long rolls, not that night.. So i start having fun with sets. I usualy do great with 2v but it wasn't longer then 8-9 toss that night, so i switch to hardway and 3v...not much betta, so i try the 2,3,4,5 left to right with all faces showing 7's... Roll a hard 6... Lol, go back to 2v. Seven out and out the door i go down 72$ on a 15$ table after 3h. Choppy night after a big win last week, bah they happen.
     
    #113
  14. hartzehn22, Jul 12, 2016

    hartzehn22

    hartzehn22 Member

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    I sometimes use the ice tong grip usually on harder table surfaces. I will often use it when shooting from right or left of stick and when I'm on a short table. If I feel that the dice are balanced and not biased, and stick 1 position is open, I will strongly consider using the ice tong toss. If the dice are seemingly bias my betting strategy changes with this style of toss and often I will shoot for a quick PSO. If the dice feel balanced, I will keep the arc low and gently push with minimal rotation or spin. I usually crouch down low (like a cougar getting ready to pounce on it's prey ;)) and start with my forearm resting closely on the table. Sometimes I position my thumb and pointer finger with tips pointing down towards the table (more of a loft toss/higher arc) other times it is with fingers tips pointed towards the table (push shot/low arc i.e. cougar pounce shot! take the money and run!!). Both styles of tosses are using the ice tong grip but a little differently based on the conditions of the tables and dice type.

    As for on-axis/off axis - that's too confusing and difficult to track so I don't look for that. Instead, I track every number I roll and how each die face shows. I track my style of toss and the dice set I use. After extensive tracking your tosses in live casino action, you should get a pretty idea of what you can and can't do. It takes a ton of practice and patience. I love playing this way. It has allowed me to formulate certain number expectations and betting strategies. It's advisable to be on a table with just a few other players so you can get a good feel of the dice early on before you begin betting more aggressively.
     
    #114
  15. eagleeye2, Jul 13, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Damn,

    Onautopilot, you make up your own facts all the time, DUH!

    eagleeye2
     
    #115
  16. The Midnight Skulker, Jul 13, 2016

    The Midnight Skulker

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    You sure it didn't just stick to your fingers and disengage when you went to the bathroom while everyone else searched for it on the floor?
    Am I the only one who saw this as a way for a RR to become a DI almost instantly?
     
    #116
    TDVegas likes this.
  17. Dave G Ct, Jul 15, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Did you ever notice that Edward - KY posts are for the most part worthless. That is the trouble with these forums- not immune to SRT's!
     
    #117
  18. driglaz, Jul 15, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    I was working on a new "sky hook" shot.

    Once the dice are set, you pick them up in an arch angle manor.

    when your arm is pointing directly up, you swing it to the right almost dropping it to a 45 degree angle.

    From here your hook begins, the early release with a forward spin, will rotate 2-3 times before landing with hardly any bounce.

    A late release is good on a longer table and will almost always stay on axis.

    if you execute the sky hook shot properly with a late release your bounce will be lower than 2-3 inches high and you get a soft landing.

    When i tried it at the casino, the stick man and Pitt boss started to yell at me saying i can not move my arm around behind the table to make the shot. I did it anyway till the 2nd point was won and the pit boss said your done time to leave..

    .back to the drawing board
     
    #118
  19. Onautopilot, Jul 15, 2016

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    Just curious Dave, where do you place yourself in this judgement of posters?
     
    #119
  20. Dave G Ct, Jul 15, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    . At the top - where else?
     
    #120
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