# First Harass and Belittle him, then "borrow" the Wizard's Material

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by KokomoJoe4, Apr 10, 2021.

1. lone irish digit, Apr 11, 2021

### lone irish digit Member

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This is Barney

Now I don't play the craps but we once stayed in a Howard's Johnson Express so let me settle the arguments based on bestest value:

1. Bonertracker is free and very pretty colors

2. Bonertracker lessons cost maybe \$500 for those personages can't navigates Excel or craps

3. Lineaways electro devices and dice talking maybes \$800

4. LIDS amazing DI Skunkhat mostly guaranteed to make you a winner \$4,250 (Twodicebelly bought 2 and it stopped his double pitching problem)

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2. Settingcanthurt, Apr 12, 2021

### Settingcanthurt Member

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Scientists unearth skunk that walked among dinosaurs

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/sci...ntists-unearth-skunk-walked-dinosaurs-rcna645

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3. KokomoJoe4, Apr 12, 2021

### KokomoJoe4 Member

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No one is saying you are making same bet, same bet, and FYI, precisely because your program is recording EVERY outcome, it is SIMPLE to calculate, AT ANY TIME, whether or not your "numbers" show you to be performing better or worse than the expected value for the bet(s) in question. A simple calculation can be done for each and every bet you make. Place six, buy 9, etc, etc, etc

The ONLY thing that matters in these calculations is the ratio of the box number, whatever it is, to the hand-ending (non-come out) sevens.

So yes, I beg to differ, my simple proof is all that is necessary to determine your so-called skill.

If someone writes down each and every outcome, he has no need for bonetracker to keep track of this. How do you get the casino results into bonetracker? You write them down.

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4. TDVegas, Apr 12, 2021

### TDVegas Member

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Does bone tracker give you an optimum betting strategy based on say the previous 1,000 rolls?...assuming of course that you can replicate those numbers to some degree for the next 1,000 rolls.

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5. yacraps, Apr 14, 2021

### yacraps Member

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...LIDS stop messing around and sells us the most wanted and craved system...how to play and win at the slut devices

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6. Linaway, Apr 27, 2021

### Linaway Member

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For decades, some people have let their mouths overload other heads by attempting to sell their concept as perfection. Few of these gurus have anything tangible to offer, just personal opinions geared to make what they do look and sound good.

Name calling, insults, perhaps even threats have been exchanged in an effort using word mechanics by some to show their opinion is more powerful and meaningful than the heavens themselves. Yet those tossing out the tongue lashings have not, will not, cannot prove as a whole what they are selling or talking about as being accurate.

THIS WIZARD OF KANSAS CAN!!! About this outstanding label I have. A very good friend long ago gave this to me. I cherish it as though credentials awarded from a high learning institute. This outstanding individual is a member of this Craps Forum and now another. While some here treat the forum as a “slander swap meet”!

I acquired my concepts from the most expensive, most critical tutor there is when it comes to the hexahedron cubes. The Dice Themselves! To enable my understanding of these factual purveyors of their dynamic wisdom process, I learned their language. These slander slingers do not know or understand this language yet babble profusely all kinds of slurs trying to emulate what it all means.

No other entity uses this language of objects in motion, a Branch of Mechanics. They use Math typically leaning toward Probability. In many actual live table instances what Probability has informed the math oriented individuals of probably does not happen verbatim.

Why is that? Square root and averages are going to give you just that and not realistic results determined by a trio of reasons. Barometric PSI, Humidity and Temperature. Shooter, Table and Dice Dynamics. No two of any of these are alike.

There is an old saying. Do not condemn the Indian until you can walk a mile in their moccasins! Those of you condemning others works with only averaged math calculations done by yet another maladroit individual needs to have undeniable proof of the validity of what they claim to be factual.

If you wish to see my material, a copy is factually always at the ready looking at you in a pair of dice. Not a mathematical estimate.

#26
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7. ChumpChange, Apr 27, 2021

### ChumpChange Member

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I watched
Talking Craps With Steve "Heavy" Haltom and Nate Fernandez
last night and saw the description of the Extended Bonetracker. I would have expected something like that around 2006, but I'm not even at the party. How do I get one?

Heavy sounds so much like Walter Cronkite, I'm wondering about clones now.

#27
Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
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8. twodicebilly, Apr 27, 2021

### twodicebilly Member

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tdv

Your smart enough to see what you got here.....each group of guys believes what they have
been taught is correct. GTC thinks you concentrate on your shot, record that in smart craps
using the hardway set and that tells you if you have an advantage........Heavy's group which
i assume Demango is part of uses bone tracker and they go further to the chi sq stuff. Linaway
has studied all possible outcomes dice can have, how they can have them and the percentages
of all of them, he can tell you all there is to know about what dice can do and so on.

I agree with all of them, while at the same time agreeing with none of them. There is no holy grail
for dice control and that is because nothing ever stays the same.... with one exception, and that is
a complete list of what dice can do......that never changes.....ever....there is only a 1,2,3,4,5,6 on
each die so when we throw them we know with 100% certainty that your result will be 2-12.

Now any player can practice hundreds of hours on a table with the GTC shot, the little joe shot
compile all the data so bone tracker tells you that you have been random or ( the last couple
of years you had a slight advantage)....... none of that tells you what will happen tomorrow
when Harrah's changes the felt, when you cant get to SL1 , when there are chips every where on
the table, when your back hurts....and on an on.

I will tell you the constant verifiable advantage is a myth........end of story.... i have spent 42 years
and many classes and hundreds and hundreds of hours of practice to come to that conclusion.
I also found out what gives you your best chance to win more often than you should.....and it is not
one of the things listed above.

TDB

#28
9. ChumpChange, Apr 27, 2021

### ChumpChange Member

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If I'm at SR-1, I set for a 7, I have a higher chance of rolling a 7. If I roll 3 to 5 7's on the come-out, I'm starting to make up for all the point 7-outs that came before me. Maybe just bet on the Don'ts until it's my turn to shoot.

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10. von duck, Apr 27, 2021

### von duck Member

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Not one of the above? OK, let's see, what have we left out ? Hummm, "CHEATING"?

#30
11. TDVegas, Apr 27, 2021

### TDVegas Member

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I would say that’s typical in something such as this where I think “provability” is “cough, cough”...difficult to measure.
If there was a holy grail that stayed the same...I’d be in the casino as much as humanly possible, getting my share. I sure know my holy grail of picking baseball or football winners didn’t work.
This is what the casino is hoping as well. Random, of course. Anything beyond random that isn’t dumb luck variance...and they aren’t happy.
Well, I think this is a big part of the problem I have. Past results may indicate advantage....but they must be replicated for future rolls. This is kind of where card counting veers away from craps. With card counting...we **know** 10 cards are on the way. I’m not so sure we ever know 8-8-8 is on the way.
Demango has his methods. You have yours. Heavy has his. Rick has his, Linaway has his, etc.

I’ll reserve judgement....as my judgement is nothing more than my opinion. In the end I hope everyone wins.

Bottom line...I don’t think the casinos are worried about anyone other than Duck bringing his own dice.

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12. twodicebilly, Apr 27, 2021

### twodicebilly Member

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tdv

exactly, what works for one may not work for another.
The really good news is what really works...the casino cant control

TDB

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13. von duck, Apr 27, 2021

### von duck Member

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Yes they can. In order for anything to "work" they must first, offer the game. It doesn't matter what works, if there is nowhere to play.

#33
14. Dave G Ct, Apr 28, 2021

### Dave G Ct Member

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DeMango mentioned the Chi test which will show influence.Memory serves me that to determine ones Chi you don't take one session results but a substantial book of rolls. So it does have merit.

#34

15. ### FredP Member

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Wow, the wisdom of the Duck. Very pithy.

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16. von duck, Apr 28, 2021

### von duck Member

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Whatever it takes Ma'am, just keeping the record straight. Are you still dating Baddoin Ma'am.

#36
17. Linaway, Apr 28, 2021

### Linaway Member

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Dave you and Demango can use BT until hell freezes over where I won't! You both refuse to learn dice properties. With that knowledge, you don't need bt ever.

Neither one of you are capable of producing the electronics I do, On the other hand I could care less. I can read the dice anywhere on the table whereas you two are top number junkies, Y axis . You are clueless of what the X&Z axis content is at outcome. Where Mad Dog's program utilizes code so do I in the design of Dice Speak. Dice do have a language. You deny it because you don't know the code. To base the results of bt on a math formula is weak. There must be code reference to all 576 P*E*R*M*U*T*A*T*I*O*N*S or the code will not work properly.

Just like giving credence only to a single axis will not provide the shooter or player a total understanding of an outcome at that moment. To write down a top number and ignore the other axes is a time delay unnecessary. With in depth dice property knowledge you know what you see and instantly know what to do with it.

Here is my proposition. You stay out of my face and I will stay out of yours. These put downs are never going to create a modicum of camaraderie for anyone. You cease putting down what I do & I will do the same for you. Continue with the crap and I will do my best to do unto others as they do unto me.

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18. von duck, Apr 28, 2021

### von duck Member

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"Dice Property"? Yeah right. A player may or may not ignor the "other Axis" but the casino DOES!

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19. twodicebilly, Apr 28, 2021

### twodicebilly Member

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DAVE

there is a vast difference between having value and making a difference at the table. I can go to my
records on my table and it would appear i have a fairly good record here....Now you add in my
records for Bowler, and Keshena, and the Dells and Tunica and laughlin and Biloxi and you got maybe
10-11 tables i play on....you add them all up and seek the results and what do they really tell you.....yup

or Boomtown, or Avi or Aquarius ?????? nothing, because when you mix the results of all these just to make
yourself feel good, your missing the most important part of keeping records....

Is there is difference in the results when you compare one table to another?????????? if those results show, and i can
prove they do for me that i do much worse at Bowler on that 16 foot table with no ATS bet than i do at the Dells on
the 14' or it shows i do vastly better at Aquarius and Avi than i do at Riverside or Harrahs, and so on.

I am not picking on Bone Tracker, or Smart craps or records....i got them coming out of my ears.......... that
data tells you something....like ok I got cancer....now what do i do....you cant treat it until you know what kind it is
and if your a craps player and takes some trips and play at a number of tables...you need to know if there is a
difference or your just like a typical player where you go play and hope some one gets on a roll. There is nothing wrong with that, just playing for fun , you want to win for sure but you sure dont
need to know about chi sq. to go and just have fun.

TDB

#39
Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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20. TDVegas, May 4, 2021

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