First Harass and Belittle him, then "borrow" the Wizard's Material

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by KokomoJoe4, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. KokomoJoe4, Apr 10, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Ever since Jacob recently made some corrections to this site, my browser doesn't let me come directly to the site, and today, for the first time, I mistakenly visited the Axis site trying to get on here.

    When I clicked on something about a get together in Vegas this summer, I read a couple paragraphs about bonetracker, posted below:

    Let's talk first about BoneTracker - the original Roll Tracking Program that set the standard for the rest of them. We've extended the capabilities of BoneTracker beyond its original 64 dice set permutations to all 576 possible permutations in order to allow you to analyze your toss from every possible set available. This new beta version is only available at this time to students who enroll in the Advanced BoneTracking Session, where we do a complete analysis of 720 of your rolls and provide you with the results.

    Of course, if you're just starting out with BoneTracker we recommend the Basic BoneTracker class utilizing the Original BoneTracker 64 until you become familiar with all of the programs tabs and capabilities. Then progress on to the Advanced version.


    Ah, so now there are 576 permutations. When in the past this fact has been stated by the guy who described them and their structured heirarchy in the dice, my buddy Linaway was ridiculed and tossed off the site.

    Now I see they accept his material, and supposedly use bonetracker to do something that is much simpler to do, as it happens, for yourself.

    Now I understand why DeMango finally acknowledged the 576 permutations Linaway has been espousing for years, because this is finally accepted by the on-axis boys.

    Oh boy, next they will be forced to admit that dice stay on-axis approximately 2.7% of the time, and will need to change the name of their website. :eek:
     
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  2. DeMango, Apr 10, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    On axis results will always remain at 44.4%.
    Linaway will always be wrong.
    No one has ever denied 24 X 24 = 576, how did you think somebody did?
    The original writer of BoneTracker saw no need to go past the original 24-48 permutations, whatever he had. 576 is overkill, but there may be a nugget somebody will find.
    You think somebody had an aha moment? Keep dreaming
     
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    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  3. KokomoJoe4, Apr 11, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    I am neither a so-called DI nor an advantage player. I'm just someone who has learned what there is to be learned about dice from the Einstein of dice, Linaway.

    576, like many numbers, has several multiples. 24 is not an important multiple in the dice. The significant multiples of 576 with respect to dice are 36 and 16, as in 36 outcomes and sixteen permutations per outcome.

    Until recently, 576 was not only denied, it was laughed at, because there are only 36 paying outcomes in the game. I have seen things stated to this effect on this board hundreds of times.

    But now, 576 has become important, and for a paltry sum, in our advanced bonetracking session, we can show you how to use this information to.............

    Like Sgt. Schultz, I know nnnnnothing about bone tracker, but knowing dice as I do, I can assure you that there is absolutely no relationship between between success at craps and keeping dice on-axis, because IF you see a "controlled shooter" set his dice when at play, it is simple to determine, by looking at four faces at outcome, whether or not his result is on axis. They almost never are.

    This does not mean that said shooter can not do outstanding when at play, hopefully he will. All that it means is that he is NOT keeping his dice on axis.

    The dice tell you all there is to know about them, except, unfortunately, what is to be the next outcome.
     
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  4. twodicebilly, Apr 11, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko

    You have been away to long or smoking something if you think Demango suddenly
    saw some kind of light and began to think there are actually others that understand craps
    and can play the game without Bone Tracker....

    I ran into his type of nonsense one day in Biloxi. I had been there couple of days, watched
    a few guys play including Heavy and Howard and there was a very frustrated tall gentleman
    with a real nice shot that did not have a clue about the value of a simple set change. At any
    rate one of the crew done there asked me if i had taken the classes of Heavy, i said no, i
    had taken GTC and LJ......and even though I was on the table with him a couple of times, he
    never talked to me again......

    What you need is a tee shirt that says.......if you have ED you dont need bone tracker...

    TDB
     
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  5. badddoin, Apr 11, 2021

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    KKJ4, I have a serious question. I'm really not interested in this subject past this small point.

    So, is all of this determined by the way the dice land? What's in top, what's facing me, on the left, right? Which dice is which?

    This seems incredibly difficult to me in a casino setting. Seems to me like the stick man would foil the plot more times than not.
     
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  6. twodicebilly, Apr 11, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    demango


    There is a world of difference between the term stay on access 2.7% of the time and
    have an on axis finish 44% of the time. I sure hope you understand this.

    But in case you have not a clue here is a little help. Take a pair of dice and set them
    in hard way set 3/5 3/5 now you should understand that after you throw those dice anytime
    the end up with a 2,3,4,5 on each die...that is an on axis result......happens 44.4% of the time.

    But reality enters....you can have a hard six....3/1 3/5 opps that is an on axis finish yet
    the axle has 5/2 6/1 instead of 1/6 6/1 an on axis finish, hardly a shot that finished on
    the same axis it started on..

    Dicesetter
     
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  7. twodicebilly, Apr 11, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    badddoin

    it can be hard, but all you really have to do is look for the seven in the axle. In the
    long run you will have better results if you dont have the same seven in it.

    You see the dice end looking at you you see 3/6 3/2 you cant have the same seven in the
    axil.

    TDB
     
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  8. DeMango, Apr 11, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    This is why the top of the two dice are the important result, what the casino pays.
    So when you input results into BoneTracker, using the starting set, you, using the same starting point will have an ending point that will have varying results that can be predicted in the future. So yes the ignoramus that claims no knowledge of dice influence, can make mathematical and physical false claims, used of course by that Non Wizard from Kansas.

    Why do we have to put up with this bullshit? Somebody in Kansas is wrong and feeds this bull to a small band of rabid followers. So every so often, the foam at the mouth boils over, and we have another bullshit thread.

    But if you ask who and where are the financially successful practicing, participents in this monetary windfall. Crickets.
     
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  9. KokomoJoe4, Apr 11, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    not land, but their orientation when settled. You are right, some sticks grab them right away, but since they do need to sit for a few seconds for the result to be called, you have enough time to see what you need.
     
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  10. badddoin, Apr 11, 2021

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    Thanks for responding, sir. After I posted the question, I recalled that you usually only have one wager at a time working, and you're pretty locked-in on what your next move is. That probably helps. I'm usually on (or behind) several numbers.
     
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  11. KokomoJoe4, Apr 11, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Not sure what you are saying here, but agree with and like your labeling of me as an ignoramous, since I've been called much worse.

    Mathematical assessments of dice results are simple to do, and these will always show whether results are as expected, better or worse than expected.

    Do not know what is meant by physical false claims, so can not respond to this.

    Love it. Rabid followers, foaming at the mouth.
    1. [​IMG]

    Opinion: DI does not exist. It is a figment of the imagination. There is variability with dice results, and it this variability that allows some sessions to end favorably, in spite of the fact that we play a negative expectation game.

    DICE are used in the game of craps, and since this is true, I want to know as much about them as there is to know.

    Will this information help me beat the game? Opinion: No, the game is random


    The only practicing participant I am familiar with is myself. Have I won money at the game using the material? YES. Have I won money at the game not using the material? YES.
    Have I lost money at the game using the material? YES. Have I lost money at the game not using the material? YES.

    OK, that covers one participant.

    I now ask, who and where are the financially successful practicing participents in the monetary windfall of the On-Axis guru's?
     
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  12. DeMango, Apr 11, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Ignorant post. Here is your quote:

    "Opinion: DI does not exist. It is a figment of the imagination. There is variability with dice results, and it this variability that allows some sessions to end favorably, in spite of the fact that we play a negative expectation game."

    Part of BoneTracker includes the Chi Square test, which mathematically proves influence or randomness. How many times do we have to tell you this???????.

    Next quote:
    "I now ask, who and where are the financially successful practicing participents in the monetary windfall of the On-Axis guru's?"

    You can find some at Heavy's site. Scoblete did pretty well AFAIK.
     
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  13. KokomoJoe4, Apr 11, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Mathematical proof of influence is SIMPLE to determine, You simply use the "math" that applies to the bet(s) you are making. ALL of these bets have negative expectation. IF the numbers input show a value greater than expectation, then it could be said that you are beating expectation for the numbers under consideration.

    This does NOT mean you are a dice influencer or an advantage player. It means only that, for the winning session being considered, your results are positive. You have beaten the negative expectation. This happens to all of us from time to time, but it sure as hell does NOT happen all of the time OR a majority of the time.

    Because this is true, more results are negative than positive for the great majority of players. When financials are negative, your calculated expectations are also negative - the player has done worse than what is predicted by the math.

    In order for a player to be "advantaged", his lifetime result for the wager in question must show positive results, or at least results that are better than the calculated -1.52% expectation for his place 6/8 or better than the -4.00% expectation for his 5/9.

    I see. Everything stated on Heavy's site is to be believed and by default somehow also proves the validity of on-axis shooting, but on the other hand, nothing told to me privately by Linaway devotees about their success at craps can be believed.?
     
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  14. Settingcanthurt, Apr 11, 2021

    Settingcanthurt

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    Koko you can clear out your cookies with something like CCleaner, I have been usingit for years. It will clear out the re-dirrect which is sending you to Axis.
    For a few months I have been using a different browser which is working out super. Just recently I allowed AD.s and am now earning Crypto coin. It uses either Bing or Google as a search engine. You choose. It blocks Ad.s and keeps you private. It's free. It will import almost all your bookmarks. The only thing you may need to do is passwords for your sites that your browser uses now. Recreate for your sites.

    https://brave.com/
     
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  15. KokomoJoe4, Apr 11, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    TY Setting. I have finally got my shortcut to this site working properly again.

    I do not own or want a phone that I can get to the internet on, and am happy enough to be able to get on here from computers at home or at work.
     
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  16. Settingcanthurt, Apr 11, 2021

    Settingcanthurt

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    No Bonetracker app on a phone table side?? Good thread, interesting read. All I know is it cant hurt to set your dice so why not know as many ways as possible. Used to watch Betweenthelines fling dice into the far corner so hard they almost ended back in front of him.
     
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  17. DeMango, Apr 11, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Another post of bullshit. Your simple proof does not work because no one, I repeat no one bets same bet, same bet, same bet, etc. it would take BoneTracker to determine which number they have an advantage over, so again you fail miserably because you have no clue what numbers to bet.

    You can only be a di if the math says so, and the ONLY way is to run a Chi Square test, all else is positive or negative variance.

    So where are those streak detecting acolytes? Haven’t ever seen one at a table. But there is more than stories at Axis, there are plenty of recent BoneTracker results published on site. All you have are crickets
     
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  18. DeMango, Apr 11, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Only so many pearls that can be cast before swine!
     
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  19. KokomoJoe4, Apr 11, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    A moron is able to determine what number(s) to bet on, the one's that are showing as he is shooting. Why is bonetracker needed?

    Is it because you have input results from every location at every table you have played at into separate files in order to see what your numbers are at each location? OK, if so, congratulations, you have an accurate account of what you have done in the past.

    Every time you handle the dice, results are different. Why? Duh, it's a random process.

    Is it possible that results calculate to player advantage? Of course it is possible. but it ain't very likely, and according to the Central Limit Theorem of statistical mathematics, of which the Chi Squared calculation is one small part, any and all results, regardless of whether they are positive or negative, always tend towards expectation with the input of more and more data.

    edit: and, I should add, expectation for every bet is negative.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  20. TDVegas, Apr 11, 2021

    TDVegas

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    It’s a matter of replication. If I have a great session, things were working, hitting my numbers, longer rolls. One can possibly make an argument that these results were a matter of influence, not luck...bone tracker’s main flaw (if you will) is that it’s based on past results. If it transfers to future results...BINGO! This is where skilled blackjack play and “skilled” craps play diverge. One is based on the past...the other is what’s known to be coming in lots (10-J-Q-K-A)

    The important question is not necessarily whether that session was due to influence, although THAT is certainly important...the real important question is can it be replicated enough times, session in, session out, thru the course of regular play...and most importantly, you are ending each year banking cash. Winning every year.

    I can’t comment on the former...as I don’t track my data nor practice my shot. As far as banking cash year in year out, effectively the ability to make a living off the craps table....I just don’t think it can be done with any degree of certainty.

    This, in effect, negates the idea that there are professional craps players, IMO.
     
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