You Have Been Asked To Leave

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Pressit, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Pressit, Jan 11, 2018

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    When a casino ask you to leave, exactly what does that mean? Apparently it may mean many things. Are you being told your play is not welcomed at this particular game, or the whole casino, or you must leave the premises? Are they telling you not to return for hours, days, months, eternity?

    There are a few on this board who have been banned from a casino, 86.
    There are a few who been denied play.
    There are a few who have been asked to leave.

    What if security approaches you while playing, and tells you to colorup and leave the premises, and does so without any other further instructions. This is all verbal, nothing is put in writing. You then return a few days later only to learn they really meant you are 86, and if you don’t leave you’ll be charged with trespassing. If you are a visiting tourist this denial may also include your hotel room,

    Can the casino legally detain you? Take you to a back office?
    Can they handcuff you?
    Are they allowed to search your person?
    Are they allowed to go through your personal belongings?
    Are they allowed to photograph you, and make copies of your personal belongings?

    At what level in management are these decisions to deny a person play? What recourse other than leaving do you have?
     
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  2. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    1. Research James Grosjean as his story sets a standard for non-Indian casinos.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Grosjean

    2. All bets are off for Native American or Indian casinos since you are now on Sovereign land — but I am not a lawyer.

    3. Check out Robert A. Nersesian aka Bob Nersesian

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nv-supreme-court/1104511.html
    https://legitimatecasino.com/bob-nersesian/
    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/funnything.htm
    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/IPBJFO1.htm

    I was told (by very knowledgeable people) if I was asked to leave, then I leave immediately. I cash my chips, ticket(s), etc and go without making a scene. At a minimum, I could be arrested or detained for trespassing by failing to leave when asked to do so. You never sign anything and you don’t say anything. However, know your rights under the 4th amendment.

    Good luck.
     
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  3. Pressit, Jan 11, 2018

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    I too have Nersesian’s book, I think if you go to LV might not be a bad idea to have him in your list of contacts, outside of LV not sure how much horsepower he has especially dealing with Indian casino’s. Appreciate your reply!
     
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  4. random_roller, Jan 11, 2018

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

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    Ideally, a person won't put himself/herself in a position where casino personnel will ask him/her to leave the premises. But it happens on occasion. A casino is private property and the business owner/management can ask someone to leave as long as doing so doesn't violate the constitution or other laws.

    Comment about Tsao decision

    Tsao decision
    http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2012/10/23/09-16233.pdf

    Link to Goodman decision

    https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featur...ming-environment-methods-risks-and-challenges

    http://albrightstoddard.com/false-imprisonment-wrongful-detention-las-vegas/

    Nevada Revised Statute 465.101
    https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-465.html#NRS465Sec101

    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/funnything.htm

    https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/las-vegas-high-rollers-call-this-guy-to-fight-the-casinos
     
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  5. von duck, Jan 11, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    They would be violating my right to pursue happiness, which I attain by beating their ass. :)
     
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  6. superrick, Jan 11, 2018

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    I want to thank you for your work on this question. Having been 86ed from a casino when I was walking out of that casino and they tried to take my photo that I didn't let happen and kept walking knowing my rights. And having Bob Nersesian's phone number on my phone stopped them for trying to arrest me for no reason at all beside the stupid casino manager telling me I was a dice control which I laught at because there is no such thing!

    Working in the casinos and having to deal with security on a daily basis. There was way too many times when I saw that they overstepped what they could legally do!

    When you read some of these cases it will blow the little man right out of the water!

    If you read all of them and then come back here and say a casino would never cheat there is smething wrong with you!
     
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  7. random_roller, Jan 11, 2018

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

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    You're welcome, Rick. While your incident is unfortunate, I'm glad to hear it wasn't much worse (like what happened in some of the cases). And living in Las Vegas, you still have numerous gaming options to choose from.

    Hopefully forum members will never be in a situation where someone like Nersesian needs to be retained. Towards that end, perhaps some of the information can be helpful to members. Most of the dealers & boxman I have encountered at the craps table over the years have been professional and reasonable when there was an issue at the table. Once in a while a crew member is having a bad day and/or is an a$$hole and that poor attitude often serves to worsen things when a situation arises. Of course, I have also seen my share of players who were way out of line, so cooperation & respect need to flow both ways.
     
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  8. lone irish digit, Jan 11, 2018

    lone irish digit

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    We all know the real reason why Supperick gets 86ed out of the casinos. It's not that he is the best craps player in Las Vegas or his penchant to help anyone who will listen or perhaps he is a bit ornery...it's that silly hat he wears, it's bad for the casino's business.
     
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  9. TDVegas, Jan 11, 2018

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Diamond Jim Brady getting tossed out of Vegas Casino for winning $50....labeled dice controller.

    Stop the presses. National Enquirer on the line. They want to see pictures of the 10 red chips as evidence.

    Nice of him not to mention cursing out the pit boss from the casino cage across the casino floor....and then asked to leave.

    “86’d for simply winning”....AKA curse out an employee because he asked you to hit the back wall.

    You wanna tell your story?...tell it without some backhanded derogatory bullshit. Then it goes unfettered by me.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  10. von duck, Jan 11, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    That's what they do when you win, give you a reason to curse them out, so they can 86 you. It's the first thing they teach, in casino management. :)
     
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  11. Liman

    Liman Member

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    well, how many people on this forum, shit, for that matter, how many people on any craps board on the internet, double shit, how many people on planet earth! can say I stayed in the Diamond Jim suite in Tonopah Nevada. I can say yes, I did with my bride.
    what room number is the diamond jim suite, oh, no room number, just take the elevator to the second floor and go to the diamond jim suite.
    I cant believe it wont upload.got it.

    they only have a slot casino in tonopah station, and everything is hand paid at your machine.
    same in mitzpah, but they did have a blackjack table, although not sure if it ever opens. hand pays at machines.
     

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  12. Liman

    Liman Member

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    casino hopping throughout Nevada and the other states is so much fun, more fun than the gaming itself
     
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  13. superrick, Jan 11, 2018

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    You, were not there and I did not curse out the pit boss, but you had a chance to be there when I was meeting with the casino manager, now didn't you but you were a no show!

    And I was hitting the back wall with every one of my shots! get off you little high horse and start playing real craps and then cut your BS. You need to read the definition of a pathological liar do you know someone that fits it to a tee?

    By the way you better go back and read random_roller post on this thread it blows you right out of the water when it comes to a casino cheating!
     
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  14. TDVegas, Jan 11, 2018

    TDVegas

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    Yeah...you.
     
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  15. random_roller, Jan 11, 2018

    random_roller

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    Being a railroad fan, I'm a bit envious you're able to visit Schenectady (former home of American Locomotive Company & GE and now Rivers Casino at Mohawk Harbor) and the Finger Lakes region (home to several railroads that use surviving Alco locomotives) when you travel throughout NY to visit various casinos.

    I enjoy visiting different parts of the country (world) and checking out other cities & cultures. Visiting casinos along the way is a bonus. Several years ago on my way to attend a friend's wedding in Fresno, I stopped by Black Oak Casino Resort (Tuolumne, CA), which is located in the state's historic gold / logging country. Ordinarily I probably wouldn't have been out that way, but during my stop in Tuolumne, I was able to get a few pictures of historic (long shuttered) West Side Lumber. For those interested in the logging industry, West Side Lumber (and its logging railroad) is arguably the most famous in US history. In Jamestown, I visited Railtown 1897 (a CA State Park, better known as "The Movie Railroad") and also Chicken Ranch Casino -- arguably the most unique setting of the 300+ casinos I have visited. There is a working chicken ranch next door to that casino -- and you definitely know it is there! The drive along SR 49 from Angels Camp to Oakhurst offers spectacular views at times. Highly recommended.

    If members have the opportunity, spend some time outside the casino on your next gambling trip away from home. Some of the "off the beaten path" casinos I have visited are located within an hour or two of some interesting attractions / spectacular scenery. Also there is a lot of history in some of the small towns those casinos are located in. One example is Harrah's in Metropolis, IL, which is @25 miles from Shawnee National Forest. Absolutely worth the visit and it is nothing at all like what most people think of Illinois (definitely not flat). Of course, Metropolis is also the home of Superman and there are plenty of reminders of the town's favorite son.
     
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  16. HornHiYo, Jan 12, 2018

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    Fortunately low stakes hit and run random craps play like yours is not the same as high stakes professional advantage play. Saying it is is like comparing Harley to Don Johnson who is a an advantage player famous for winning over $15 million against three Atlantic City casinos within six months. BTW unless you have Nersesian on retainer like the big boys do all you have is a name and a number. But don’t worry.... in all likelyhood you really won’t need him anyway.
     
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  17. Settingcanthurt, Jan 12, 2018

    Settingcanthurt

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    Fill your room full of high powered rifles??
     
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  18. Liman

    Liman Member

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    not sure if I mentioned this, but my wife is an avid quilter. we visit the Lancaster pa area frequently.(well, 2-3 times a year up till now)
    Stroudsburg railroad, there is a huge railroad museum, last trip they let you go into the engine of a locomotive (1970s) and move around the cockpit, I think you might enjoy the area if you are a railroad enthusiast. My friend from Ohio came in and we met him in Lancaster, hes also an enthusiast and hasn't been to the railroad museum there in years, he loved every minute of it, me, eh, ya see one, they all look alike to me.(not knocking your hobby)
    I went to visit an amish furniture making business, interesting to me since I woodwork.

    only bad thing, no casinos in the area, closest one is valley forge, 45 mins or hour away.
     
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  19. Liman

    Liman Member

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    yeah, I don't see why rick, who seems to walk around the casinos pretty low key, he keeps his cell camera on and no one hassles him, how on earth at a 3 dollar casino he had problems. I see rude assholes who don't give a shit what the pit boss says, argue with delaers, curse at everyone on table, yet, they play to their hearts content, no one is tossing them with 5 dollar betting.

    this past October, I mentioned some guy named sean at sunset station, several pit bosses told him sean, if you don't hit the back wall we are going to pass the dice, he just smiled and them and continued his play. they never took the dice away from him, and every dealer in the casino knew him so I doubt they are kicking him out anytime soon. and he was a short throwing di shooter. I made 3 times on his roll what he made, only because the come bet sucks:p:):cool::rolleyes:
    some days, ya just hit the right table at the right time, or sit at the right bubble at the right time, and anyone that tries to figure out any other reason why you won big that day, is just being silly. right place, right time.
     
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  20. eagleeye2, Jan 12, 2018

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Pressit,

    I seriously doubt that a Casino would resort to any of the items listed in the end of your post, unless that person was listed in their Black BOOK!

    As one that has been "banned from shooting" Craps at two different Vegas Casino's, both requests were quite similar as follows:

    1) A Suit approaches you (indicating that the invitation came from above, not the table crew) & politely states:

    2) Sir, we consider your play to be to good for this Casino.

    3) As such, you can continue to play only by betting on other shooters, or continue to Shoot on your turn, only if you simply pick up the dice & shoot them, no Setting or Fondling with the Dice will be allowed.

    Needless to say, that was enough of a warning, that I Colored Out & left the Casino's.

    In both cases, I did not feel threatened, as long as I complied with their polite requests, which I did. No point in arguing with them, as I was ahead & would have been leaving when the table filled up anyway.

    eagleeye2
     
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