Winning at

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by superrick, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. superrick, Jan 9, 2018

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    There are many books about winning one of the best I ever read was on sailboat racing that after I stopped racing I gave away! That book gave me the winning attitude that I needed to win in life and on the race course. I can't remember the title of the book as there are so many on winning I'm not going to spends hours trying to find it.

    One of the things I found out many years ago is that you have to invest your time if you what to win at anything. All you have to do is look at what out Olympians do to win at what they are doing. It takes years of their commitment to winning. They spend all of their time training for just one day!

    Winning starts on the first day that you say to yourself that you want to win and you're willing to put the time commitment into doing so! You have to take what you are doing seriously. You can strive to improve your game without spending all of your time doing so on a lower level of play unlike what our Olympians do to win!

    That may start by just reading a few good books on the game and not going 100% by what they wrote. I get something out of just about every book that I read. Even if it just reinforcement in the fact not to do some of the things they say are good bets to make!

    So, here is a good question for everybody on this board what have you done to help you win at craps?
     
    #1
  2. $nakeEye$, Jan 10, 2018

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    To answer your question in a " round about " way -

    There are some who do like you and I do -

    Investigate ALL angles / available information about a subject (s) which are of interest -

    Then there are - OTHERS - who are too lazy to do the legwork themselves and RELY on OTHERS to do the work for THEM -


    THEY are the ones who are short-changed in the Long Run -

    THEY are the ones who continually NEED to " Take a Refresher Course " - simply because THEY do NOT have the " desire " / " want " / " BALLS " -

    To strike out on their own !


    THEY NEED to be baby-sat and spoon fed - and have their diapers changed on a regular basis - THEY have NO incentive / balls / heart to take THAT CHANCE !


    THEY are AFRAID - there is RISK involved - THEY would rather be led by the hand and jerked off on a monthly basis THAN to strike out on their own !


    I TOOK THE RISK - in Business - and in " life after business " - as well as " life in general " -


    With RISK - comes " Reward " - IF - YOU can distinguish the GOOD Info from the BAD / USELESS Info -


    BUT - YOU / ONE MUST take the initiative and EDUCATE YOURSELF as to WHAT is good, bad or downright ugly !


    Good Post !


    $...eE..$
     
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  3. superrick, Jan 10, 2018

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    Craps is a game that is only about one thing and that is the return on investment! The math does not figure into what you are seeing on the table after all as I have been told so many time the dice do not have brains, nor do they have ears to hear you telling them what you want them to do! They can't see how much money you have bet!

    You have to learn how to turn your bets into winning bets and getting the bigger payouts without making really stupid bets! Some players will never do that, no, they try to rely on a system type of betting and only betting on what they think are low house edge bets!

    They forget that those bets have to hit to become winners and by only betting on those low house edge bets they do not get enough profit to make them good winners. No, they just try to survive and in the long run like they love to talk about they come up losers!
     
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  4. Freddyy, Jan 14, 2018

    Freddyy

    Freddyy Member

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    Take it the other way around. What makes you lose overtime...exposure. If you expose your money long enough. You will lose.

    Winning strat has reduced bankroll exposure.

    I’ve seen and had success with high bet that leave the table quick. If you leave it there after it paid...you’re getting f’d.

    So wait for a good run and start betting high.

    Ex: 6-8 @90 pays 105. First hit drop to 42’s. Second hit 24’s. Then start moving up again. You get 154$ profit on two hits, second hit has 0 exposure. Third hit makes it 192$! With 107$ garanteed! Now we’re having fun! So we start pressing!

    If you don’t thrust it, start at 36-36 drop to 18-18 Until you get 180 ahead. Still going to pay 84$ for 3 hits with exposure on first one for 72...as long as you plan to get paid more then you pay, you will have fun in this game.

    Don’t leave your bankroll exposed for a long time. 1 hit max! Don’t even try two! Regress under half of your bet.

    Or progress like this:

    300$buyin 6&8 @ 36-18-18-24-30-18
    150$ profit 6&8 @ 60-24-24-30-18
    300$ profit 6&8 @ 90-42-24-30-18
    500$ profit 6&8 @ 120-60-24-30-18

    Try it online even if you want. It does work fine unless an ugly run hits, but on a good run you get $ fast as hell!
     
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  5. James Hall, Jan 14, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Try a progression strategy , you get $ even faster
     
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  6. twodicebilly, Jan 15, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Snakeeyes

    I have a friend that is a very serious guy and he has some money.

    He does not chart the tables he does not have a practiced throw except he does like
    to be at SL1 or SR1
    He plays with no fear at all..none...he takes ( playing here, more in Vegas) about $2400
    to the table and buys in up to three times ($800 each) ..never goes to the ATM , if its gone its gone...

    He starts at $25 5 & 9 and $30 6 & 8 and 20$ fire bet. Here it is double odds so he has
    $25 pass line with double odds....if he is behind and has already bought in for $1600
    he presses first hit....If the 5 & 9 seem to be hitting more than 6 & 8 it is start at $50
    and he watches the shooters if you are throwing 4 & 10 he will buy them on that shooter.
    He gets the big roll he wants he is gone...

    HIs largest win last year was $52,500, and he had many $5000-$10,000...
    I never asked him about being up or down for the year.. He is very careful not to
    dig a real large hole and takes his wins....I bet he comes out a head for the
    year....now that is hard for me to admit because I have always felt you cant bet or
    just play your way to being ahead for the year.

    tdb
     
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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  7. tabletop123, Jan 15, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    TwoDice....I hate to keep tagging Pool to Craps, but in this particularly case....I MUST. Contrary to popular belief, some people just do better at craps than others. They don't have to be a Di!

    You can get two people with the same skill level, & same betting pattern, but one does better than the other one. Hard to believe, but true.

    Now, Buddy Hall ( touted as the best Nine Ball player in the world at one time) had the most horrific luck that I have ever seen, even though he was the best player for many years.

    Played absolutely perfect, & time after time, he'd get on "the hill" ( needing only one game to secure a victory), & then all kinds of SPOOKY shit would happen to keep him from winning. UNFUCKING BELIEVABLE!

    There are people that just win, & there's no rhyme or reason. Its simply "in the stars" for them, & ain't a darn thing that could change it. It is what it is!

    Now, let's talk Dice Influencing a bit. The same thing occurs. Ya get two people that have very nice tosses, the same betting strategy, but one always seems to win more than the other. That's just the way it is.

    I do know that the more skilled that you become at tossing dice....the closer that it brings you to the unwanted Seven Out.

    Most Guys don't want to admit it, but the better that your toss becomes, the more that influence becomes a double edged sword. Those sloppy-ass 25-30 roll hands that you used to get as a beginner with the Hardways set hurts you as you become more skilled, & when you switch to a bi-axial set, you are still treading dangerously close to that unwanted Seven, because your toss is so much better.
    The one time long hands that you used to get become much shorter hands with more repeaters, & then a quick Seven Out.

    Case in point.....I was tossing with G, & he was using a All Sevens set for the point Cycle. He must have tossed 3-4 sevens in a row, because his die faces were NOT flipping over. He was tossing the dice perfectly, & getting perfect outcomes. ( Or maybe I should say that his pre-set numbers were appearing after the dice came to a halt, because slo-mo video has proved that dice flip, & tumble MANY times even if they end up back in their original set after the toss has concluded).

    That's just the way it is!
     
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  8. James Hall, Jan 15, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    "I do know that the more skilled that you become at tossing dice....the closer that it brings you to the unwanted Seven Out"???


    How does that work?

    I don't understand how getting better makes it worse.
     
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  9. tabletop123, Jan 15, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    And you wouldn't!
     
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  10. James Hall, Jan 15, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    could you explain what you mean by that? I am trying to understand
     
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  11. tabletop123, Jan 15, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    It's all outlined in the initial post. Do you REALLY want me to post ANOTHER six paragraph post when everything is explained in the initial post? Say it aint so!

    I will say this......it's just MY opinion. Maybe it's right, or maybe it's wrong.
     
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  12. James Hall, Jan 15, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    I guess it just seems counter intuitive
    Evidently I am just not understanding
     
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  13. Mssthis1, Jan 15, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    Compare it to golf. Every time you are off by a gnats behind and "lip out" your toss using the hardway set you have a 1 in 4 chance of a seven. Assuming you're good enough to keep your dice on axis. If you're using a different set you're still often times 1/4 turn of 1 die from disaster if you make a toss that is "almost perfect"

    I see way more double pitch sevens from claimed DI's than I see from chuckers. Watched a guy in a cowboy hat at Belligio toss the prettiest PSO double pitch seven you have ever seen the morning of December 6th right after his wife did a PPSO. Both had real pretty parr tosses.
     
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  14. James Hall, Jan 15, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    As a comparison to golf ,
    I have seen guys who had the prettiest golf swings you have ever seen
    They could hit as nice a golf shot as any tour pro on the tour
    Knowing how to hit the ball doesn't mean
    YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY
    hitting golf shots and playing a good round of golf are two different things

    I think where we have problems in communication regarding DICE INFLUENCE / DICE CONTROL or what ever
    comes in what all that actually means

    EXAMPLE : What is the difference between a DI and a CLAIMED / SELF PROCLAIMED DI ?
    Not everybody who sets the dice and has a pretty throw is a , "QUALIFIED DI"

    People have a tendency to see somebody go thru the motions of setting the dice , throwing a pretty throw and assuming they are a DI
    Some of those folks are copying what they see others do when in fact they haven't a clue what they are doing or what it's all about

    So my point is if we are going to compare a random shooter to a DI
    let's get a random shooter and a DI to do the comparison

    Many people don't believe in DI simply because they probably have never actually seen a DI
    They may have seen somebody setting dice and assumed they must be a DI

    That would be much like seeing some guy with a pretty golf swing and assuming he is a tour player

    There are all levels of expertise or skill in anything
    So compare a really good random player to a really good DI
     
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  15. Mssthis1, Jan 15, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    What is your definition of a really good random player and a really good DI?

    My definition is they play at least four hours a week of casino play with action on the table and they are making money over the long term. I consider long term a 3 year segment. It's easy for someone to have a 6 month to a year long slump no matter how good they are unless they're playing 8 hours a day every day. Then the timeline would be compressed.
     
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  16. tabletop123, Jan 15, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Thanks, Mssthis1....You DO understand EXACTLY what I was referring too. However, I do agree.....how in the fu**k do you get shorter rolls as you become more skilled? Simply because You tend to hit a lot of repeaters, & then the seven out. Its a trade-off...sort of speak.

    Now, I am NOT saying that you never toss long hands. I am just saying that your skill level will have you hitting one or two numbers MOST times more than probability dictates.

    You are just simply more accurate with the way ( Quirk?) that you toss the dice. Listen.....if I can hit a ........let's say a 5 & 10, or any other one or two numbers 2-3 times per hand with CONSISTENCY...do ya think I give a Rat's Ass about tossing a long hand/s? Lol.

    Mechanical toasters ( James, particularly) just don't understand that repeaters is what gets ya paid the most.....NOT betting across, & just banking on tossing enough times to make a profit. Ya gotta work smarter, not harder.

    NO...I am NOT telling ANYONE how to bet their money, or not to bet Across. I am ,just saying that I would prefer to have a skill wherein I am hammering 1-3 numbers as opposed to just tossing long hands & whatever numbers show,..they just happen to show up.

    Yep....I'm talking about Sniping, which is DAMN hard, because you are controlling more than influencing. Yep, I've ...said that sniping ain't happening MANY times, but why NOT thrive to be perfect, bet vertically, & have a better R.O.I.?

    Just MY way of thinking!
     
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  17. James Hall, Jan 15, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    A really good random player would be one who can produce the outcomes that probability would suggest bur who might be able to realize some larger than average wins
    from time to time

    A really good DI would be someone who can offset those probabilities in a positive way in a consistent manner and is able to capitalize accordingly
    There are all manner of skill in this , from very poor to really good

    Again the problem with the communication of the thing many call DI is everybody has a different idea of what it actually entails
    To many people , anyone they see fiddling with or setting the dice is a DI , some on this forum who do not believe at all in DI set the Dice
    Yet they are considered by many to be a DI
    So the comparisons are not possible with any accuracy

    In Golf we have a handicap system to determine a persons skill , we can compare skill levels of different players
    with craps people just arbitrarily decide , he set the dice had a pretty throw and had a PSO so DI doesn't work
     
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  18. tabletop123, Jan 15, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    No, Mssthis1....I think we need to ask Mr. Hall: "What is HIS interpretation of a REAL Di.

    THAT would clear up a LOT of things. Now, I have practiced with G, & I know EXACTLY what his interpretation of a Dice Influencer is.
    Even though I have never tossed with Rick.....I know what his interpretation is. Having said THAT......both of these Gentlemen's interpretation of Dice Influencing is NO WHERE NEAR what James has posted on this forum.

    So........Mr. Hall, grace us with YOUR exact interpretation of what a TRUE Dice Influencer is, but P-L-E-A-S-E.....spare us the double-talk, & straight to the Meat of the Matter ( Asking you, RESPECTFULLY).
     
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  19. tabletop123, Jan 15, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    My apologies, Mr. Hall. I was a bit premature with my post, not expecting you to respond so quickly.
     
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  20. James Hall, Jan 15, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Evidently you don't understand how James plays , James banks on long rolls and parlays the hell out of repeaters
    I play for trends and I am on them at the beginning and I am there for the duration , If I seven out in 4 rolls no problem
    I generally have my money off the table , I have bets working and have some profit locked up

    Many times on a $6 six or eight I will lock up a thousand dollars or more with one of our strategies , "LET ER RIDE THE MAN SAID"
    The key to the REALLY BIG wins is two things
    Roll a bunch of numbers and a strong betting strategy to capitalize on the numbers , "THE DICE ARE GIVING YOU"

    come on TDVegas will get , have gotten , should have gotten , might have gotten or got
     
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