Win Goal vs. Loss Limit

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by Grizzoola, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Grizzoola, Aug 1, 2014

    Grizzoola

    Grizzoola Member

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    Is there any kind of proportionality between win goal and loss limit? For example, I buy in for $200 and make that my loss limit, but if I win $50 or better, I consider coloring. That makes 4 to 1, loss limit to win goal. Is that a decent proportionality? Or is there any kind of proportionality, at all?

    If you do not set win goals or loss limits, don't comment. But, if you do, how does your win goal compare to your loss limit? I know this is highly individualistic, but it would be interesting to get info from experienced players on this board.

    I put this in the Beginner's forum, because that's what I still consider myself.
     
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  2. Morgue, Aug 1, 2014

    Morgue

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    Setting a loss limit is probably the #1 prevention of ending up as a problem gambler. So good on you for that. I feel setting a win goal on the other hand is not really necessary.

    As an alternative, have you considered adjusting your loss limit based on how much you are up and other factors including how much more time you'd like to play?

    Using your example, let me throw a few scenarios your way and you can tell me what you think.

    1) You're $50 up from your $200 bankroll. It took you 10mins to be up 25% but you're in the mood to play craps tonight and would be disappointed to leave now. Pocket the $50, start your night fresh with your new $200 BR. Your loss limit will actually be $150 if the dice don't go your way. You might also win another $50 so you could then consider a new loss limit.

    2) You're $50 up from your $200 BR, you've been playing a while but would like to play a little more. You've decided that you won't lose any money tonight. Your new loss limit is a maximum of $50 to break even. Scale that down if you want to ensure profit. Worst case scenario, you'll break even for the night.

    3) "just one more roll!" Pretty self explanatory. Bet on one last shooter (wait to shoot yourself if you're patient), if you lose, you're done, goodnight! If you win....consider a new loss limit using any 3 of these methods.

    If you don't feel like playing at any stage, colour up and see you later. We should all be playing for fun, NOT to make a profit. We're definitely hoping to make a profit though. If it's not fun, you're done.

    I use combinations of all those methods.

    Personally, I like even numbers to the nearest $50, so if I'm up $65 from that $200 bankroll and I feel like leaving, my new loss limit will be $15, if keep winning, I'll stop at $300. I'll only set a win goal if I want to leave.
     
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  3. basicstrategy777, Aug 2, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    A piece of advice I would have is, if you have a win goal, say 50 dollars, don't try to hit it exactly. If you are in the area, consider it met. From there, go with your plan when you meet you goal. In gambling, close is good enough.

    The reason I say this is because if you are 5 dollars away from your goal and you keep playing trying to get that 5 bucks, you could end up losing it all if you are not careful.

    777
     
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  4. Grizzoola, Aug 2, 2014

    Grizzoola

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    Morgue, these are all good suggestions. 1 & 2 are most appropriate to my case as, altho up within a half hr., I'd like to play more. One thing you point out is that win goals and loss limits are flexible as the occasion demands, not something to be hard and fixed.

    It just seemed strange to me to have such disparity between win goal and loss limit, where loss limit is 4x the win goal, but maybe that's to recognize the negativity in gambling. IOW, "take the money and run."

    And, I need to not consider breaking even as some kind of uselessness after an hr. or 2 of craps. It's like you say, craps should be played for fun, altho many don't see it that way.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  5. Grizzoola, Aug 2, 2014

    Grizzoola

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    Well taken, 777. If you don't mind, I'd like to know what your practice is in setting win goals and loss limits. I'm beginning to realize that for some players, this may be no one's business.
     
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  6. basicstrategy777, Aug 2, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    My loss limit is 50% of buy in; I'm pretty firm about that. .....win goal is more fuzzy and is more a function of how good the table is running. As long as it is going good I stay....if it is going good and than starts to back off, I go.....this is really a 'feel' thing and what each person does when they are up will vary.

    The downside...the downside...the down side. We must micro-manage the downside. Like I said in the book, your first goal is protection of buy-in. This , IMO ,is critical and ALL things will follow from that. The upside , I'm not worried about.

    Rules are good...But I consider them guidelines. A monkey can follow a rule but we have judgement and I think it is a wise thing to know when to break/bend/go around a rule. The better your judgement, they better the result. If you have consistent lousey judgement, you better stick to your rules.

    777
     
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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  7. Morgue, Aug 2, 2014

    Morgue

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    Actually, I feel the same way. How did this method come about? Have you taken it as advice from someone/somewhere or have you created it yourself?

    I'm glad you took that on board. How's this for an example:

    I played for 7hrs a couple of weeks ago and was behind $80-$120 for most of the night. I clawed back and ended up breaking even. I just had a free night of entertainment. I also considered it a "get out of jail free" card. We're not supposed to win or even break even... None of us.
    IMO, if you won't divulge a particular gambling practice, it's because you're ashamed of it (in most cases).
    I'm happy to talk openly about any wins/losses, methods etc with anyone on this board. I just came back from a session and will be adding my stats to my post "morgues latest session" in trip reports (or whatever I named that thread, I can't remember). Look out for it and comment on it if you're interested.
     
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  8. Morgue, Aug 2, 2014

    Morgue

    Morgue Member

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    Great advice 777. Not adhering to this would be considered "chasing losses". A definite bad practice.
     
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  9. tabletop123, Aug 2, 2014

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    I think that a 50% loss, & it's time to walk. However, I think that Playing a session for more than an Hour is Synonymous to Tugging On Superman's cape. Of Course there are Rare Exceptions when you can do no wrong, but TIME is Your enemy in the Casinos. The House Edge will continually Grind You down the longer That You Play. Yeah, The Casinos love it when You Play those Marathon sessions. Personally, I'd rather walk, than to "GRIND" for long periods of Time just to break Even, or win a few bucks. Typically when you start "Chasing" Your losses, you end up "Face Down" in a Grave. ASK ME HOW I KNOW!!!! LOL Been there, done that, & Have the T-shirts, & NO Bankroll to Prove It. LOL
     
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  10. Morgue, Aug 2, 2014

    Morgue

    Morgue Member

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    The dice are waiting for you upon your return to the table. Your whole "craps career" for lack of a better term is as synonymous as one big marathon session.
     
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  11. Grizzoola, Aug 2, 2014

    Grizzoola

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    Reading these comments, I conclude that a 50% loss limit is reasonable. That's the way I feel, actually, and it's how one feels about his money that is important in any gambling. Some have said not to buy-in for more than you want to lose, others have said it's ok to leave the table with something left over. I guess I'm of the latter persuasion.

    With a $200 buy-in, if I've lost 50%, I'm ready to hang it up. There's always another session. And, Morgue is right: Playing craps is one long marathon, no matter how many separate races you divide it up. Morgue: I hit on the win goal/loss limit discrepancy on my own. It just seemed ridiculous to risk $200 vs. winning only $50.

    777: Your book, esp. Chapter 9, "Strategy," is invaluable. The only thing: Instead of waiting for three 7Outs after a series of wins, I'm tending toward leaving after one 7Out. "Take the money and run," as they say, and I will always come back for another session.
     
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  12. KokomoJoe4, Aug 2, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

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    Exceeding my 50% of buy-in loss limit has cost me at least two or three trips into the casino.
    Last time in was stupid enough to let it all travel to the bank simply because I didn't feel like going home. Nothing worse than going home empty pocketed, UNLESS that is allowed with your own win/loss rules.

    On the upside, I can't think of one good reason to stop playing as you are winning, UNLESS you see a loser. One loser should be enough, then follow the advice of the Steve Miller Band........
     
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  13. $nakeEye$, Aug 2, 2014

    $nakeEye$

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    WHEN TO PULL THE PLUG !

    THAT is the QUESTION to that ever elusive answer -

    I have LOSS LIMITS - which I sometimes adhere to - and sometimes do not -

    I was getting my ass kicked royally at a PT event some time ago -

    A LATE participant arrived after I EXCEEDED MY loss limit amount -

    I stayed a little while this ' late comer " did his thing -

    This " late comer " had a usual roll of exorbitant box numbers -

    Particularly the 6 and the 8 -

    As I just got my arse kicked -

    L and I vacated the table with our tails between our legs -

    The " late comer " - PappyVanWinkle - proceeded to ' clean house ' with his usual throwing capabilities -

    I have NO regrets as to what I / we decided to do -

    OUR LOSS LIMIT was exceeded and it was time to vacate !

    It is what it is !

    $...eE..$
     
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  14. jose21_us, Sep 1, 2014

    jose21_us

    jose21_us Member

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    First time on this site and I love that their is a crap forum here. I only play a few times out of the year because I live in Miami so there is no craps here. I travel for work so whenever I am close to vegas I try to always make a weekend trip. My bankroll is pretty simple I will start off with $300. My goal is to double it. I don't get to play often so I like to be on a table for a few hours. If I lose the $300 I will take a walk and try to cool down and start again with another $300 after an hour or 2 on another table.. The key is not to keep throwing money on a table and hoping for a turn around. That usually ends pretty bad...
     
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  15. Grizzoola, Sep 1, 2014

    Grizzoola

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    It's unrealistic to try to double your BR, IMHO. You want to quit while $600 ahead? Maybe you have reached that lofty perch. I suggest if you're ahead $90 (30% of BR), It's time to quit. Maybe $100. At least go for modest wins to begin & go on from there. It also involves how long you want to play.

    Having a loss limit pretty well takes care of itself re: longevity. Up in the air is when to quit when win goal is reached. Others have posted advice on this already. I see it as win goal vs. time at the table, which is purely subjective for each player.
     
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  16. jose21_us, Sep 1, 2014

    jose21_us

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    I understand grizz, but I only play a few times a year so I am trying to win a decent amount. If I played everyday I am more than happy with 90 bucks. I am also trying to win 300 not 600.
     
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  17. Morgue, Sep 1, 2014

    Morgue

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    $90 is quite conservative. Especially if you haven't played long enough to scratch that itch.
    If I was in that situation, I'd likely decide I wasn't going to lose money on that session. I'd try to increase my $90 win as far as I could push it, once I fell back to my original $300, the session is over. If I make it to $180 in front, I'd likely "lock" up the $400 ($100 profit) and see if I can push the extra $80 out further.
    Once satisfied with the amount of time, I'll play until my bankroll is rounded up or down to the nearest $50
     
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  18. jose21_us, Sep 1, 2014

    jose21_us

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    Yes I would rather play for a few hours and win 50 bucks then play 5 minutes get 90. I want to have fun and have some free drinks while I am at it.
     
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  19. Night Attack, Sep 2, 2014

    Night Attack

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    Greetings Crapsters.

    I would be interestd to know why someone would buy in at 100% when their loss limit is 50%. Why not just buy in at the loss limit?
     
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  20. Morgue, Sep 2, 2014

    Morgue

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    I've asked the same thing in the past. It seems silly to me too.

    The reasons put forward are to train your discipline to be able to leave with chips in front of you and it's comforting to not leave empty handed.
     
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