Why so few DIer?

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dave G Ct, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. Dave G Ct, Sep 19, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    The main reason is most players are uncoordinated. Simple as that. Hit a 4" circle? Most cannot even properly grip the dice never mine throw it.
    Some burn out- over bet their hand.Pretty soon bankroll gone.

    No proper instruction followed by laziness. Plus dice players are the dumbest players by far with zero MM skills.Also they are stock in their own losing ways and will not change.

    All in all WtFC ' s less people at the table!
     
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  2. von duck, Sep 22, 2021

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    I think tabletop said it best Dave. A guy that made his living with his hand-eye coordination, and touch with a pool que. Those skills should correlate pretty good with “DI” and yet, by his own admission, he couldn’t do it. It is nearly impossible Dave.
     
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  3. DeMango, Sep 22, 2021

    DeMango

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    In all fairness, tt3 lost motor skills in his hand. I personally witnessed this at Gargoil’s table.
     
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  4. Dave G Ct, Sep 22, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    DeMango

    There are so many great supplements for joint stiffness, tendon - ligaments that will turn the clock back without surgery.
     
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  5. Liman

    Liman Member

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    I've played with half a dozen di shooters from this site
    I've also seen 1000 s of dice setters at tables I've been on

    I have yet to see anyone be able to actually control dice where it made them money and most important consistent
    Everyone has great rolls
    I hit the all all in Blackhawk last month
    We all have those rolls
     
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  6. DeMango, Sep 22, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    It was worse, no cure
     
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  7. random_roller, Sep 22, 2021

    random_roller

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    It isn't laziness or lack of hand-eye coordination. The overwhelming majority of craps players just don't believe in DI, period. Most spend very little time actually playing craps in a casino. Hence, they aren't willing to invest time & money into something they believe would amount to the craps table equivalent of a Flying Dutchman journey. For the vast majority of craps players, time is better spent understanding betting scenarios, bankroll management and table etiquette.

    Now, there might be a trivial percentage (say, <<<<< 1%) of craps players who can make the argument they are DI. However, they aren't full-time professional craps players (per the IRS) and almost certainly have other (non-gambling) income streams (e.g., wages from job, inheritance/trust fund, SSI, annuity, etc.) and/or means of support (e.g., living at home with mom, spouse/SO, etc.). Casinos don't fear their play at all; rather, they joyfully welcome DIs and their aura of advantage play (rain delay-type and/or rule breaking DIs excepted b/c rolls per hour and hitting the back wall matters). Why? Because it entices others to the craps table. Besides, casinos have the financial resources to easily outlast any and all craps players no matter how good the roll. Time and the pay table/mathematics of craps all favor the house. In the end, aside from government intervention, the only thing that will cause a casino to fail is poor financial management or consolidation at the C-suite level.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  8. TDVegas, Sep 22, 2021

    TDVegas

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    Solid assessment. I’m pretty much in full agreement. Staying just net positive each month, playing 3-4-5 times a week is Herculean imo.
     
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  9. Dave G Ct, Sep 22, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Good replies gentlemen. But when casinos intentially make tables bouncy and put super rubber in the back wall one asks why? Casinos aren't making the money they used to - just looked k at our 3 casinos around me. There are plenty of players DI ers net positive and shooting is just one aspect. MM and good betting strategy is probably more important because without a proper framework it collapses.

    Yes RR ' s have great hands but they are few and far between. Some players who shoot randomly are just successful.
     
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  10. Dave G Ct, Sep 22, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    The Hawaiian Craps Shooters are bringing DI back.Moneyshot is very personable and they film their casino sessions. Then negative nancies like Random can look for themselves (.BTW Random how many 6 point Fire Bets have you made ? Five points?) Hey nothing is staged and they are having fun! Nothing wrong with that.
     
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  11. TDVegas, Sep 22, 2021

    TDVegas

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    Dave, is it possible that making a table a bit more bouncy is done to discourage those who might “low toss” or borderline slide the dice in an attempt to “reduce” randomness?

    a bouncy table generally yields dice bouncing off the table (no roll), thereby slowing the tosses per hour, thereby costing the casino money.

    I can’t see it being done for anything other than ensuring random rolls. A dice slider or low tosser I would not even call a dice influencer. He’s basically just attempting to cheat.
     
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  12. Dave G Ct, Sep 22, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    TD I have never in my life seen a low sliding toss that is used in cheating.Never. Part of the folklore I believe. Also you're right a bouncy table slows down the game with dice bouncing off the table. I don't mind them putting a faster micro fiber layout down but putting closed cell foam makes it a trampoline. BTW those LV tables in the Hawaiian Crapshooters videos look very playable!
     
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  13. random_roller, Sep 22, 2021

    random_roller

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    I absolutely agree the casino takes measures to try and "randomize" the dice, which is what the pyramids and special underlayers are designed to effectuate. This is for both DIs and random shooters, not just DIs. And as TDVegas noted above, it is also to protect against would-be cheaters who slide dice. The cost to add material to a craps table that affects the bounce & movement characteristics of dice is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, so why not implement such measures? However, it's a balance between getting enough bounce & movement and slowing the game down because of dice/die flying off the table. Above all, the casino wants rolls per hour to be higher.

    Edit:

    Casinos aren't making as much money today because of vastly increased competition since the 1990s. Before 1990, there were 2 states with casino gambling: Nevada and New Jersey. It's ridiculously easy for a business operating as an oligopoly to make money. In addition, Steve Wynn started an arms race when he opened Mirage in 1989. Suddenly, all casinos were trying to one-up the competition, and that is prohibitively expensive. As river boat gambling started to proliferate in the 1990s, suddenly gamblers didn't have to visit Las Vegas or Atlantic City. Casinos responded by increasing marketing efforts, resulting in higher costs.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  14. Dave G Ct, Sep 22, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    You are right and I cannot figure it out.Stop with the sliding shot.Have you ever witnessed it? Even when it was done years ago how many actually used it? I am for a fair game for both casino and player. In CT. not a problem. What I hate is these shooters who take all day to shoot-;rolling dice into the side rail .
     
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  15. random_roller, Sep 22, 2021

    random_roller

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    I have seen someone attempt what I believe were a few practice runs at sliding. The @3rd attempt piqued the boxman's interest. The 4th attempt received a warning to "put some air under the dice". After that, the pit boss came over and told him the next such roll the would result in a no roll and the dice would be passed. The shooter then started flinging the dice fairly hard & wildly against the back wall/mirror. Fortunately, nobody was injured and the seven out happened shortly after.

    Every now and then, some shooter tries to slide dice at a craps table in a casino.

    Prosecutor explains dice-sliding scheme at Cleveland casino - YouTube
     
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  16. TDVegas, Sep 22, 2021

    TDVegas

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    Sounds like Howard Rock N Roller. When questioned, resort to cannon fire.
     
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  17. random_roller, Sep 22, 2021

    random_roller

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    First off, your reading comprehension flat-out sucks. And I'm being kind. Also, I hope you are not too...clueless to understand YouTubers (and others on social media) only post what they want the public to see. However, the jury is still out on that one. Besides, since you can't seem to figure it out, I'm all for craps players -- DIs and random shooters -- having great rolls at the table.

    I haven't yet made a 6 point Fire Bet. That's okay, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I've made a 5 point Fire Bet on several occasions, shooting for the 6th point at least once -- even posted a picture of the Rivers Casino Hot Shooter cap for that I received on this forum a while back. IMO, making a 6 point Fire Bet has as much to do with luck as it does with "skill". One woman at Rivers -- the Wild Thing of dice shooting -- made two (2) 6 point Fire Bets in one week. She is the ultimate feast or famine shooter. If you're not paying attention when she's the shooter, you run the risk of being injured by a die (or dice) flying off the table. It's a nice win for those who had $5 wagered, for sure, but anyone so fixated with repeatedly announcing he has made a 6 point Fire Bet like you have done ad nauseum is probably trying to overcompensate for a small...something. I've had great rolls and poor rolls, just like everyone else I have seen play. I suspect you have, too, even if you can't admit reality.
     
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  18. Dave G Ct, Sep 22, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Yes luck is involved . As to putting up what they want you to see they put up live sessions also. I remember Bone Thrower who put up a lot of great roll vids and people said he only put up the good ones.Well he certainly had a large number of long roll vids.You know how hard it is to make a video with commentary and what stop at roll 16 because it is not long enough.Thats crazy. People value their time.
     
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  19. Bases loaded, Sep 22, 2021

    Bases loaded

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    Wow! Craps Forum is showing some life again. Long Covid winter over?

    Random Rollers and DI's going at it again, like old times.

    Dave G. in the middle of it. Of course!
     
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  20. Dave G Ct, Sep 22, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Yes have to make it lively again!
     
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