# Why I hate Interblock Bubble Craps

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by TR31, Oct 5, 2017.

1. ### TR31 Member

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I was in Reno for a quick trip to scout out conditions before my big trip latter in the month.

Grand Sierra Resorts has Interblock bubble craps in the "stadium" with lots of seats where you can play Craps, BJ, Roulette, etc on the same screen.

The min bet was \$3 for Craps. You need to play two adjacent machines for Pass / Don't Pass. Good news is Field bet pays 3X on a box car! That makes the Iron Cross the best bet with a house edge at over 1% per roll.

The machine shakes the dice for about 9 seconds. Also, the screen outlines the past 300 rolls, e.g. a histogram of past rolls from 2, 3, ... 12.

I won't be playing this game after further analysis. You bet \$3 lay (to lose) on the Ten and Interblock rounds down. \$3 * 0.5 * .95 = \$1.425 but they pay you \$1.42. You make a \$2 Place bet on the Six and win \$4.33 (btw Aruze Craps pays \$4.34 for the same bet). Yeah, I was checking odd bet amounts to see how Interblock rounds these wierd bets.

Here's my biggest complaint, Interblock won't let you make bets on box numbers on the come out roll. I would have won an Iron Cross bet but I could not put on the bet. (On Aruze Craps, you have the ability to turn the bets "On" so all your working bets are on during the come out roll.)

Another problem is the machine won't let you hedge against the point. Suppose you have \$5 on the pass line and the point is now 6, so now you want to hedge using the 6 (e.g. you make a Place to Lose on the Aruze Crap[A]) but Interblock does not allow the player to make a Lay bet on the 6 when it is the point.

No one really knows how coin-in into points work at GSR but someone told me it was like \$2,000 for 1 point from any bubble craps so forget about free play, free food, of free rooms. You will still get something but it won't be much.

So why do people play the Interblock bubble machines? It has to do with the past 300 rolls. Unlike Aruze Craps where you can have the machine shoot or have random players shoot, the Interblock machines are systematically software driven -- think of Interblock as a controlled game where it's entire randomness is based of its P-RNG and bubble conditions. If you can spot a run where the P-RNG is screwing up you can make a ton of money .

-TR31

[A] This is true for Aruze Bubble Craps
You make a Place bet on the 6 or 8
You make a Buy bet on 4, 5, 9, or 10

A \$1 Buy bet on Ten gets you \$1.90 while a \$1 Place bet on Ten gets you \$1.80 when you WIN!

You make a Place to Lose bet on 6 or 8
You make a Lay bet on 4, 5, 9, or 10

Here you want the 7 before the box number. \$120 Lay bet got me \$177 on the 10 for a net \$57 win. If you make a Place to Lose on the 10, you get less than \$57 if you win. I posted both photos earlier in the year but Linman didn't believed I made both these \$120 bets despite correct payoffs on each win.

In the academic gambling literature, we have two main fallacies: gambler's fallacy or reversion to the mean bettors and hot hand bettors or streak bettors.

For example, suppose in a double zero roulette machine, the color Red came up for six straight spins. The gambler's fallacy bettors will bet on Black because black is due. The streak bettors bet on Red because Red is on fire!!

However, there is evidence that the streak bettors are correct if the P-RNG is not working correctly.

If you are going to track numbers, then you might want to use a partner because of the short window for making bets.

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2. wonko33, Oct 7, 2017

### wonko33 Member

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In Montreal I played on an Interblock machine too, I think there is way to have your place bet working on come out , I think you should check it out next time, did you look at the instructions? I might be wrong but...

In Montreal the bubble max is enormous like 48K where it is only 2k at the tables.

In montreal the bubble min is 1\$, but it does something weird when you place the 6 and 8, the bets are in increments of \$ 1.02 to give exact payouts. So you can't place the 8 for 6\$ it will be placed for \$ 6.12 ( 6 increments of \$1.02) it does similar stuff for some Lay bets too.

I don't think they have place to lose bets there, just lay bets with Vig collected after the win

I could not figure out if you can hop numbers

I liked it, it was a great way to teach people I was with how to play with low stakes, also we could hang out together when they wanted to play blackjack or the slots (....shudder)

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3. Mssthis1, Oct 7, 2017

### Mssthis1 Member

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Interblock gives individual casinos many more options on how to configure their machines. Because of that every one you run across is different. I know the one locally it only takes a push of one button to work your bets but you have to work everything. If I want to work hardways on a comeout I take everything down and just put the hardways back up working.

I don't hedge so I have never tried some of the other things mentioned.

I wish there was a way for US citizens to play in Canada without getting double donged on the currency conversion.

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4. wonko33, Oct 7, 2017

### wonko33 Member

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yeah I know, in many Vancouver Casinos if you convert there and keep your receipt they will give you same rate on same amount of money you bought originally. But you get hit on your winnings. Shame because I have many acquaintances that hate the smoke and Canada casinos are smoke free,

I gave my money to family members that had lost so they could get good conversion for me last time we were there.

Yeah in motreal there was a OFF button like you describe

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5. von duck, Oct 7, 2017

### von duck Member

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So it pays what, \$7.14 for a \$6.12 six? 48K max? That seems really high, I'd be Leary of a table with that kind of max, especially if the "tables" had only a \$2000 max. If anybody has a "VIABLE" explanation for the difference, I'd like to hear it. To ME, this sort of a thing raises red flags.

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6. von duck, Oct 7, 2017

### von duck Member

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I could never figure out why someone would WANT to hop a number. In all of my years playing craps, I do not remember, ever making a hop bet, never.

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7. wonko33, Oct 7, 2017

### wonko33 Member

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could be some dumb law in Quebec about table games - the nanny society . I checked my pictures and yes it was 48K but that's Canadian so maybe \$500 US

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8. von duck, Oct 7, 2017

### von duck Member

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A Canadian dollar is worth only 1 US cent? I thought it was more like 75-80 cents. Using your conversion rate, the table limits of 2K would amount to about \$25?

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Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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9. wonko33, Oct 7, 2017

### wonko33 Member

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just this thing I do to annoy my Canadian friends- Wherever we go I keep commenting that everything is 30% at this place.

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10. von duck, Oct 7, 2017

### von duck Member

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I also have "Canadian friends", do you know the Seegram's by chance?

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11. ### Liman Member

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I believe each casino who leases interblock or a ruse has the options of all the bets
It's simple software,the bubble at sunrise didn't let me bet do and don't at same time
There was one older gent playing two terminals for this exact reason

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12. von duck, Oct 7, 2017

### von duck Member

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This one still baffles me. Let me pose this question to anybody. If a guy comes to you and says he wants to play a Dewy/don't, wouldn't you be willing to book this bet for him. I can't think of a bet that I would rather book, can you? So I ask again, what would be their problem? Why the hell wont they, and even more importantly, why do I seem to be the only one asking?.

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13. Onautopilot, Oct 7, 2017

### Onautopilot Member

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You are the only one asking "now".....the rest of us asked and answered this many moons ago, no need to keep beating the drum on something so obvious.

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14. von duck, Oct 7, 2017

### von duck Member

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This is a bullshit answer, and you know it. The only obvious thing, is you and a few others would like to dodge this question, and more importantly the answer that it leads to. I have never heard a viable explanation. And another thing, it isn't just with the bubble, it's with anything Dewy/Don't, every time it comes up, you either misrepresent it or try to sweep it under the rug. Remember "The Dewy/Don't is a bad bet, any time any where". It was you and 7out, with exactly the same incorrect quote. I will "beat the drum" until I am satisfied that the question has been answered. As of now, the question has NOT been answered.

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15. ### Liman Member

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no one here can answer why and how a casino operates.
someone in the casino sets the software and works with the manufacturers.
you should contact someone in the casino who is responsible for the setup and ask them, but I truly doubt you will get an answer.
casinos don't discuss their business with anyone, especially outsiders.

I personally don't understand why they don't let me lay more than 25 dollars in most aruze bubbles, and where I play in aqueduct, there is no limit on the lay bets.

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16. von duck, Oct 8, 2017

### von duck Member

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This capping of the lay bets, is another "move" by the casinos that in theory, would make absolutely no sense. By this I mean a different limit then buy bets. I do not believe these things to be oversights by the operators, but rather, ploys with a specific intent. This is a pretty good indication that something is not on the up & up. I would book the Dewy/Don't for any amount of money you would like to bet, and could do so with zero bankroll. I've heard people say crap like, oh, maybe the software can't handle it, yeah, it's real complicated, this bet loses, that bet wins. These questions have an answer, and I believe it is a pretty obvious one. I challenge Aruze to provide, some logical explanation, for these discrepancies, surly they have some PR guy, that would be more than happy to do so. How about it Aruze? .

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17. Mssthis1, Oct 8, 2017

### Mssthis1 Member

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I feel it has to deal with the floor people in the casinos mucking up or manipulating the machines as far as how they accumulate points. When the interblock machine went in they had a sign on it that it wasn't accumulating comp or tier points for months and all the while it was. Probably because a tech didn't know how to reset something so they did a hard boot back to factory default settings.

Not allowing play on both sides is probably casino requests and is in the machines firmware so it can't be changed locally. There's the possibility of collusion if the casino techs could override or change anything so their friends or accomplishes could game the point multiplier days.

The new machines here, both the Interblock and Azure I can accumulate more points on a \$500 buy in than I ever did on live craps and it would take many thousands of dollars in slots to generate the same points. They are both still set the same as the casino slots as far as coin in for a point. I'm sure that will come to a screeching halt soon.

At a live table if you play a do/don't you most likely won't be rated at all.

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18. von duck, Oct 8, 2017

### von duck Member

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Thanks for the response, but, none of this in any way makes sense, if the bubbles, truly mimic the real game. The Dewy/ Don't in NO way changes the amount of money the casino would net from the bets involved, if the game is honest, not one penny, If that is so, and it IS, then all of this stuff about people "gaming" the machine for comp points and such, is total bullshit. What the Dewy/Don't does do is limit the ways that the game can be rigged, and that is all it does. Limiting the lay bets and hedge bets is also suspect, and for the same reason. My questions are good, and they are completely FAIR to ask, and I believe they deserve an honest answer, and I am yet to see it. .

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19. Mssthis1, Oct 8, 2017

### Mssthis1 Member

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20. von duck, Oct 8, 2017

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