Why do we play?

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by KokomoJoe4, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. betwthelines, Jul 26, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    LOL! yes, a pro golfer would wax me every time! i am not much on golf although i was paid rather handsomely i thought to play it once at a resort in scottsdale i believe it was...here is the kicker on that one: they didn't even check up on us (then spouse & i) as to whether or not we actually played so we snuck off to visit a friend in mesa instead!...

    when we returned i told the fellas and the one lady in our party that they didn't even need to toil all day on the greens! the resort wasn't checking up on them...they were not amused but i was and (cue broken record) that's all that matters!...the $700-800 they credited my visa was awfully sweet though...

    how much do they pay you to play golf?

    as to my craps play, you're pretty much spot on...i do actually practice though on wingcraps, usually with an eye towards my next live play, eg, the local joint is 5x odds so i will play vicariously on wingcraps with that setting, or, if going, for example to vegas, the usual play is at main st station so i will simulate their 20x odds etc...

    now in that regard you yourself might have seen on this forum that the downtown grand is offering free buys on the 4 & 10...obviously the Tough Craps player will make ONLY those bets when at such a table so i am playing those bets vicariously on wingcraps and actually doing quite well...almost $1700 ahead after over 10k rolls...hopefully the bets will still be available in december when i am there...and the rolls similar to my current, vicarious fun!!

    fun is good.

    tom p

    "fun is good" --trademark of the st paul saints
     
    #81
  2. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    As a matter of fact I did quite well , I was a golf professional for a good deal of my life
     
    #82
  3. Edward-ky, Jul 27, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    I turned on ESPN this morning and never did see anything about craps. I figured it was as sport too with all the comparisons between baseball golf and basketball.
     
    #83
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  4. Twelve4s, Jul 27, 2016

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Ya, WTF?

    Maybe they need an announcer?

    Who better than James Hall, "live from Mesa Az!"
     
    #84
  5. HornHiYo, Jul 27, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    A huge difference also between casino craps play and play at home keyboard craps.
     
    #85
  6. TDVegas, Jul 27, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    As stated, James..if you don't want to demonstrate your talents at the craps table for a skeptic, that's fine.

    I can only ask. If the answer is no, I'll drop the request. I'm certainly not paying you money for the opportunity.

    That leaves me to stick to my intuition that in all likelihood your statements on advantage play, winning, DI...are a story.
     
    #86
  7. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    totally understandable , some folks are totally inept when it comes to sports and craps
    craps has one thing in common with both of the other two
    the two sports are target oriented games which allows those adapted to those games
    to readily adapt to throwing dice as proficiency in DI is somewhat dependent upon delivering the dice to a specific spot
    thus it too is a target oriented endeavor
    I am sure that all that explanation is wasted on people who have such a small grasp of what makes a winning craps player
    randomness prevails in the game of many on this forum
     
    #87
  8. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Edward
    ESPN ?
    much like craps the joy you find in life is thrilling over the exploits of other people
     
    #88
  9. TDVegas, Jul 27, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    There is ZERO evidence to support that. None.

    Golf is target oriented in the sense you are shooting for the fairway and the pin. Tennis could also be target oriented in hitting the tennis balls deep and to the corners as a way to beat an opponent.

    There is ABSOLUTELY no evidence of any kind that hitting a target on the craps felt is a better or more efficient way to win. The pyramids do a good job of thwarting that for 150 years of bank craps.

    The sports analogy to craps is another pie in the sky, plucked from thin air, no evidence type of claim.
     
    #89
  10. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    TD
    if you knew the first thing about what you like to call DI or about the people who are successful with it you would know that they endeavor to land the dice in a precise spot
    but lacking that understanding it is difficult to impossible for you to have an informed opinion
    and as far as the pyramids are concerned there are ways to nearly negate their effect and in some instances to negate their effect entirely
    We do have that technology
    We demonstrate that quite successfully on many occasions
    sorry you missed it
    We will be planning another trip to Albuquerque here soon
     
    #90
  11. The Midnight Skulker, Jul 27, 2016

    The Midnight Skulker

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    And this just in: there will be multiple categories based on throwing technique, like there are for strokes in swimming.
     
    #91
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  12. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    TDV
    I will concede one thing there is no evidence that you know of
    and the fact is there is so much you don't know , there are things going on that you just can't or won't accept
    many people are proving everyday that the process works , if you played craps you would see it
    you would see the evidence that you claim doesn't exist
     
    #92
  13. betwthelines, Jul 27, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    yep. as i hinted, they usually can't pay me enough to play golf and i never have...when they gave me close to $800 to do it, i managed to sneak away without them noticing---prolly not the most honest thing i've done in my life, you know...

    i did ask how much they paid you to golf but of course as a pro they paid you much more than they pay the duffers i would imagine...

    in any case yesterday i experienced something much more fun & exciting than golf...i re-decorated my new room and got to watch the paint dry...

    fun is good

    tom p
     
    #93
  14. TDVegas, Jul 27, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Well, this gets back to my original query to you to watch this process as you do it. You are unwilling. So, I'm left to make my own judgements. I'm willing to see your evidence. You are unwilling to show it.
     
    #94
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  15. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    edward
    many people who do well at craps approach the game much like an athlete would
    they learn technique , they practice and they improve and now and again they take their A GAME to the casino
    where they find the random crowd waiting breathlessly for the skilled player
    to produce that variance they rely upon but are totally incapable of providing for themselves
    the chunkers / random players capitalize on the opportunity provided them ,
    go to the cashiers cage , cash out without so much as a thank you
    and declare unto all the world IT WAS LUCK without one thought
    about how much time that player might have invested to get where he was
    shameful
    keep searching the tables those skilled player all around you get on the tables with them
    take advantage of their skills , but don't , I mean do not learn to do it yourself
    it will make you look bad to your buddies TDV and OAP
     
    #95
  16. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    TDV
    not at all unwilling
    For two and a half years here in Mesa I demonstrated what I do
    some people started with me , some of them have been with me for nearly three years
    they come over before the go to Vegas or Laughlin for review
    they go play , they are net positive
    most have purchased craps tables al bought them from winnings
    those are facts not opinions
    I have invited you to come over
    to no avail ,
     
    #96
  17. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    fun is good
    fun DOES NOT SUCK
     
    #97
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  18. James Hall, Jul 27, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    between
    the golf industry has changed a lot
    the tour pays much better now than it did in the 50s and 60s , caddies now make more than tour event winners did back in the day
    club professionals in the 60s in many cases made more money than club pros do now
    As a club pro back in the day I would have the concessions , pro shop , snack bar , in one case I leased the restaurant and
    had the cart rental
    now the clubs have golf management companies running them so there are two companies making a profit on one enterprise
    as a result they have driven the cost of golf clear out of reason
     
    #98
  19. Onautopilot, Jul 27, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    James, the majority of posters here do not believe your "stories", just accept that fact, or take TDV up on his offer to witness your great "skills", and show all the doubters your stuff!

    Anything other than those two options, like continued bragging, and chest pounding, are just more evidence of your insecurities, and need for recognition.
     
    #99
  20. The Midnight Skulker, Jul 27, 2016

    The Midnight Skulker

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    Good grief! The thread goes viral and here I am eating dust. [cough, cough] Couldn't resist a premature reply to Edward-ky, though; glad to find out it didn't duplicate anything.
    Being as I am running way behind on this thread I have found it unnecessary to restate at length the points others have made, and so I have confined myself merely to Liking their posts. I do have one thought to add -- or more accurately perhaps, emphasize -- however.

    Walking into a casino with a positive attitude is good. A while back Basic Sevens called my attention to the poem Thinking by Walter D. Wintle, which says it better than anything I think I could come up with. ;)

    OTOH walking into a casino with a positive expectation can be financial suicide unless you are absolutely certain you have beaten your chosen game(s), and even then you must be able to recognize when today is not your day, not necessarily because of bad luck, but because you are off your game. 'Tis said in sports that winners find a way to win against inferior opponents, but on some days that winning way simply isn't there. As in hole digging, when you're beating a dead horse, STOP BEATING!
    A situation easily corrected. The Skilled Ones need only solicit a Pre-Glow Fee from The Unwashed before shooting up a storm for their benefit.

    As for The Unwashed's "IT WAS LUCK" declaration, were they not lucky to be at the right table at the right time doing the right thing? Perhaps, after taking four lessons, they realized they lack the necessary motor skills and hand-eye co-ordination to succeed at dice influencing -- for example, my physique is such that I could never dunk a ball into a standard basket regardless of how much coaching I received and practicing I did -- and so devoted their study to recognizing those who are successful. Is not the ability to recognize a skill in others a skill in itself? I submit successful sports scouts are skillful...whether or not they can say that five time in less than two seconds.
     
    #100
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