Who Hops?

Discussion in 'Prop Bets & Side Bets' started by The Comeback Kid, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. The Comeback Kid, Nov 1, 2013

    The Comeback Kid

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    Some casinos don't even allow it i.e. Mohegan Sun PA

    Which got me to thinking maybe there's something there.

    I've seen just 1 shooter in my vast career years ago do it effectively.
    His favorite number was 6.
    But he was hopping numbers left and right with greens then blacks.
    Left the table with $14,000

    Now sometimes it appears that numbers are actually lining up.
    I've been watching for this and have even impressed myself.

    Besides the obvious failed point -becomes the next point.

    Sometimes there's a connection between the yoh, and the 9.
    The 4 and the 8.
    Also the 5 and the 10.
    The 6 and the 9.

    I wouldn't bet the house on it, but a couple red ones here and there
    could make the difference.

    What say you?
     
    #1
  2. kaysirtap, Nov 1, 2013

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    I say: selective memory

    BTW, how can the 11 and 9 be connected, and the 6 and 9 be connected, but not the 11 and 6?
     
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  3. basicstrategy777, Nov 2, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    Kay......no offense but I really have grown to dislike that catch-all term "selective memory". It is used to knock anyone that brings up things that happen at the table and how often they observe them.

    I like you.......but "selective memory" can kiss my ass.

    777
     
    #3
  4. The Comeback Kid, Nov 2, 2013

    The Comeback Kid

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    Everything's connected, yes.

    I'm talking about tendencies.

    "Never be afraid to try something new.
    Life gets too boring when you stay within the limits of what you already know."

    Roll well my friends
     
    #4

  5. Heavy

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    Different dice sets and player roll characteristics.

    I've seen some very effective hop bettors, but most of them were dice sliders. In a straight up game the vig is pretty much insurmountable over the long run.
     
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  6. rudeboy99, Nov 7, 2013

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    If you ARE going to bet the "one roll" seven, or Big Red. or Skinny Dougan. make sure you do it in units of $3, as individual "turn"bets as the pay off will be slightly better, i.e., a $3 "turning" 7 will pay $13 as opposed to $12 to a regular "hop" 7 . I know it ain't a LOT of difference, but a buck is a buck, and it is the seemingly small gains that will sometimes dictate whether your session is a plus or minus. As Hank Stamper said in "Sometimes a Great Notion", "....never give an inch..." :coolsmile:
     
    #6
  7. Badcompany12, Nov 10, 2013

    Badcompany12

    Badcompany12 Member

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    I hop 7's, 2, 3, 11, 12 on come out roll
     
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  8. SevenOut, Nov 11, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I will occasionally HOP a Hard Way when my Bankroll is way into the positive range. Since I am playing the Hardway 6 and 8 all of the time, it would be well worth the $5 Hop Bet that I toss to the Stick as an additional "bonus" whichever Hardway I chose. It is ALWAYS the Hardway that is POINT, being a 4, 6, 8 or 10 using my Full Monte System. Maybe Karma is on my side with those optimistic Hops, even though I have never had a Hardway and the Hop win at the same time... ever. But I am not a chronic Hop bettor, when you are tossing $5 chips onto this area of the game!

    Even then, the HOP Bets are just another whimsical long shot. But, understanding that the Hop Bet has its negative expectations IS already built into my game... it is one I am willing to undertake.

    Since many Casinos now even have Hop Bets on the layout, it is much easier to watch someone break the tension with one bet, which encourages others to do the same. I am not an impulsive player. I do not FEEL any particular dice combination is due, coming or appear in patterns. That is for other players to work out on their time and bankroll.

    WE ALL KNOW THAT A HOP BET IS A SUCKER BET... we do. But when you hit a 30X or a 15X winner... screw the math and the House Advantage. It was well worth it!

    I fault no one playing the Hops and actually am with the bettor that it does come in as a winner. It adds a new depth to the game and we all need to hit a long shot every once in awhile... myself, excluded to date.

    BUT... I add this as a disclaimer. Anyone who Hops the SEVEN... just have the dealer put an OFF BUTTON on that roll and save yourself a buck or a fin.
     
    #8
    6&8Hopper likes this.
  9. The Comeback Kid, Nov 15, 2013

    The Comeback Kid

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    I had a great time at Borgata playing around with the hops with a player I’ve seen before.
    He comes with a friend, likes to sit and mostly bitch n moan, but a nice guy.

    Anyway, after a while I see how the numbers are lining up. A shooter hits his point a 6,
    I hopped the nine, cost me 2 red - and it hit - $80 & down. Another shooter makes his 5,
    so I hopped the 10s. Bam, it hit - $80 & down.

    What a blast!

    Now this guy’s looking at me like I’m “Carnac the Magnificent.”
    After a 9, I could feel a yoh coming – Bam – No Yoh.

    So I stopped, but it does add a nice spark of excitement.

    And yes, I’m available for parties, Bar-Mitzvahs.
     
    #9
  10. falcon, Nov 16, 2013

    falcon

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    Actually the hop can allow one to save $$ while providing a maximum amount of action.

    1. $40 on the outside and hop the EASY 6 & 8 for $1 each way. If the point is a 4 or 10, your option would be to either play odds on the point or not play it at all.

    2. One could hop the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 all easy for $1 each way or $10 total. A hit gives one a net $5 win and two hits allows you to break even. Anything beyond that and you are golden with the exception of the C&E, a 7, or a hardway toss. But that is gambling.

    3. If you are betting big, one could do something similar to #1 above or bet $60 each on the 6 & 8; $50 on the 9, hop the 4, 5, & 10 EASY for $2 each way ($8), and let the chips pile up in your tray w/o a risk of $320.

    falcon
     
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  11. The Comeback Kid, Nov 16, 2013

    The Comeback Kid

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    Interesting.

    Have you played this style, Falcon?
    I can see dealers/players rolling theirs eyes at me;

    $1 hops come down, hops back up, hops come down, hopes back up!

    To me, it's more a rifle-with-a-scope shot, than a shot gun blast.

    I can see modifications of scenario #3 if you've climbed that lovely progression plateau
    and your rack is nice and full, but now seek continued exposure at reduced risk,
    as that abundant roll approaches it's inevitable end.

    A regression strategy.

    What say you?
     
    #11
  12. $nakeEye$, Nov 16, 2013

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    The ComeBack Kid _

    You're giving your age away, Dude !

    Johnny retired quite afew years ago -

    And ' Karnac or Carnac " -

    Did his last episode with Big Ed -

    Another ' Jersey Dude ' -

    AHHH, the ' Good Ole Days ' -

    See you in AC ! -

    But at Caesar's or ShowBoat -

    Not Borgota -

    Prefer the 12' ers - NOT the 14' ers !

    $...eE..$

     
    #12
  13. falcon, Nov 17, 2013

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    TCK: I play this way alot. The dealers need to be "taught" this method during the point. All I do to "renew" the hops on the table is tell the stickman "same bet," and they accommodate me w/o any fuss. If I get a hit, the stick tells the dealer what to pay me less the renewed bet. If the hop is lost because another bet wins, I toss him the new bet and he taps the existing chips on the table. When the point is over or I decide not to renew, I just tell them the "hops are down." BTW the dealers never roll their eyes at me.

    Consider the fact that I can play across the table (Place Bets) for less than half the risk as someone who normally bets the regular way, and my return is similar. I use the doey/don't so if I were to use #2 above, I could use the don't odds of $12 to cover the hops and all I would need to win any given hand is one hit and a 7 out or two hits and a point conversion in a majority of instances.

    falcon
     
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  14. rudeboy99, Nov 17, 2013

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    We all realize hop and turn bets are bad %-wise, but so are long shots at the horse track...but, MAN!!! They sure are fun when they hit!!! ;-P
     
    #14
  15. falcon, Nov 17, 2013

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    If you seriously look at the way I am using the hops (BTW not all the time or exclusively), you should be able to figure out that the craps math of thirty ways to win and six ways to lose can work to a similar extent as using Place bets with pressing. I am reducing the $$$ risks and maintaining the return on equity. The other intangible is that when your hops hit alot because of the "spread," the other players at the table take note and wonder how I could be so "lucky." It is really fun.

    falcon
     
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  16. The Comeback Kid, Nov 17, 2013

    The Comeback Kid

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    I guess it's never a bad idea to seek maximum exposure at reduced risk without sacrificing profits.
    $178 risk for a seemingly $320 exposure! I like the sound of that.

    As the Russian said to Dr. Strangelove,
    "I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Herr Doctor"

    Question: In Scenario #3 Why do you prefer placing the 9 and not the 5, or both & hopping just the 4 & 10.
    Also you're ignoring one of the highest hop payouts on the table - the hardways.

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks again for sharing this.
     
    #16
  17. falcon, Nov 18, 2013

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    Great questions: If the point is the 5, then placing the 6, 8, & 9 makes more sense to me personally since those numbers can hit multiple times while the the 5 can only be hit once. The idea for me is to limit $$$ exposure to the 7. If the point is a 6 or 8, playing the 5 and 9 plus whichever is not the point along with hopping the EASY 4 & 10, or do as #3 above. Playing all six numbers using only three Place bets only (whichever those numbers might be with the exception of the 4 & 10) just absolutely reduces ones risk.

    As for the hardways, since you are hopping the EASY 4/10 FOR $2 each, you might wish to consider $2 or $3 hardways bets as a hedge. Those bets stay up until the EASY 4/10 are hit or a 7 out. As you know a $3 hard 4 will pay $21 less the $2 hops or a net of $17. The hard 6 & 8 are covered with the Place bets unless you feel lucky.

    One other thing, if the shooter is "hot," one might replace the hops if hit twice with place bets on the 4/10. Multiple hits on the Place bets will allow you take those up too.

    falcon
     
    #17
  18. DeMango, Nov 29, 2013

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Wore your shirt at the smoke free Palace the other day Mr Falcon. The dealers loved it! Won $41. Cashed in and the cashiers faces all lit up too! Many Thanks!
     
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  19. falcon, Dec 1, 2013

    falcon

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    It is fun, and I am glad you are enjoying it. Have a wonderful holiday season for you and yours. A happy, healthy, profitable New Years to you also.

    falcon
     
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  20. JHPA

    JHPA Member

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    I like to hop the hardways after a front line winner. If one of them hits on the comeout, I take down my $31 and put $5 on each of the all day hardways - $7 profit. If anyone hits, I take my $35 or 45 in winnings and put $5 more on each hardway - additional profit of $15 or $25. I now have $10 on each. Another hit and I am loving it!

    I can not tell you how many times I have taken that original $4 bet and made over $100. I can trace many of my most profitable sessions to hitting hardways with $10 or more - all generated from that original $4 bet.

    Of course, I agree that all of those $4 bets have added up over the years, but I consider it a re-investment of my winnings.
     
    #20