Where do I start?

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by ZeusyZeus, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. tabletop123, Apr 24, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,271
    I would suffice to say that prior to 2005 Di'ng was very possible for even a average shooter? Why, you say? Simply, because conditions were better!

    The equipment being used these days makes it VERY DIFFICULT to influence the dice! I think the "Breaking Vegas" Dominator Bullshit forced the Casinos to "Tighten Up"

    That "Breaking Vegas" episode further proves my point that guys that have perfected a Craft just can't keep their friggin mouth closed!

    Why in the shit would I go on National TV, & rub the Casinos the wrong way by saying: " I can beat craps, & this is how I do it"?

    What's really suprising is that Frank, Dominator, & Most of the GTC instructors were raised in an era BEFORE Old Top, wherein Hustler's NEVER, EVER, revealed their secrets!

    I wish you guys had been at Bensinger's pool Hall back in the 70's when "60 minutes( TV crew) was interviewing pool Hustler's all around the country! I kid you not........ When they walked in the door, A pool hall with a murderer's line up of roughly 25 of "Chicago's finest", emptied out in less than 30 seconds!

    Who the fuck wants their picture taken, or to have their face plastered all over National TV?

    The "Soup of the day" was : "P-L-E-A-S-E don't take my picture!

    Sorry to go off on a Pool tangent AGAIN, but NO........in my opinion, Frank, & Crew opened up "Pandora's Box" when they aired that special!

    Closed Cell Foam, Rubber, Cork & Super ball Back wall pyramids are a very formidable foe!

    I recall watching a table being re-felted at one of my local joints & the stuff under the layout looked like some kind of extremely hard rubber!

    These Casinos ain't stupid! They know about guys like Old Top ( just kidding)! Lol

    They gotta KEEP protecting their bottom line! Just wait guys.....Even money payouts on the 6&8 are just around the corner!

    Damn, greedy, stingy-ass corporate pencil pushers!
     
    #181
    HornHiYo likes this.
  2. tabletop123, Apr 24, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,271
    Regarding SRR's........Pointless! If you aren't hitting the numbers you are betting, a big Dick SRR is useless!

    Okay, I STAND corrected! Maybe playing a Iron Cross, it might mean something! Personally, I just want to hit a couple numbers & run! Doesn't matter if i do it in three rolls or 3,000!

    Long rolls is just Bullshit that the Schools sell! Can you have them? Absolutely, but don't count on it just because you practice your toss!
     
    #182
  3. Onautopilot, Apr 24, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    9,405
    Likes Received:
    6,735
    Gender:
    Male
    They were selling something! They weren't stupid, if they really could have done what they claimed, they would have been like you.......please don't take my picture! But when you're selling a "dream", get it in front everyone, there will always be a few takers if enough people see it.
     
    #183
  4. Onautopilot, Apr 24, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    9,405
    Likes Received:
    6,735
    Gender:
    Male
    You know Top, I have never had a problem with most of the DI guys on here. I don't even have a problem with Billy, he has one with me, but that's o.k.

    My only problem has been with a few of the DI proponents that said stuff like....."Me and my buddies need to hit Vegas again soon, I'm buying a new house and Vegas is gonna pay for it!". :)
     
    #184
    tabletop123 and TDVegas like this.
  5. TDVegas, Apr 24, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,080
    Likes Received:
    9,773
    I'm still kind of amazed that people would believe these DI school sellers would actually teach this craft if they themselves could do it. Even if it was fleeting, not all the time etc. As long as it worked to make bank...No way they teach it.

    They teach because in reality they can't utilize this "craft" to make money. Notice I didn't say they can't influence. Influence outcomes seems to have morphed into "if I'm hitting my numbers, I'm dice influencing".

    Variance plays no role?

    Damn financial suicide...especially if that teacher creates more of these players and in doing so imperils his own ability to make bank (leery pit boss, black book, outright banishment, word of mouth, etc.)
     
    #185
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
    HornHiYo likes this.
  6. tabletop123, Apr 24, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,271
    We think along the same lines! I believe that slight influence is possible in certain situations! It's just the Grandiose claims that SOMETIMES make me want to detach from the Di'ng thingy!

    You see, I don't get all rattled, & blown out of proportion, when I hear outlandish claims, because I KNOW what can, & cannot be done with Dice Influencing. Some of the shit that I used to hear on Heavy's forum is TRULY comical! ( Now, that I have had time to reflect).

    Of course I was "Green" back then, & didn't know any better.I kissed Ass just like everyone else did to the self-proclaimed Guru's, because I didn't know any better!

    In my honest opinion, the learning process REALLY begins once you have total access to a table. Might I add......UNINTERRUPTED access!

    You get to experiment to REALLY see what happens when dice hit the felt, the effects of what happens when the dice hit the pyramids.....ie, the effects of the dice hitting the first row versus the second, third, fourth row. of pyramids, etc.

    Now, I don't criticize those that don't have a REAL table to practice on! I mean......You CAN develop a fluid, mechanical toss on a practice rig, or just tossing on your bed!

    However, if you want to biodegrade things.....A real table is the way to go! Get you a Go Pro , Slo-Mo Camera, & you will REALLY see what happens with a perfect toss once it hits the tables, & then on to the pyramids!

    I can tell you this......It ain't pretty! I was just like every other hard-Core Di , UNTIL I purchased a table, & started filming the different gyrations that MY TOSS goes through before coming to a final rest!

    The "Schools" will always exist because of the patented rebuttal of: " you need more practice", or " you ain't doing it right"!

    I think that if these guru's told their students as they're taking their seminar money, that: "There's a 98% chance that YOU "Won't possess the ability" to influence the dice......Enrollment would decrease tremendously! Couple that with the realization that the 2% that WILL possess the "Goods" to influence the dice , WILL NOT be moving mountains,........ there's a very strong possibility that the Guru's will be shit out of luck keeping their classes filled!
     
    #186
    Onautopilot likes this.
  7. AzDice, Apr 24, 2017

    AzDice

    AzDice Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    405
    Gender:
    Male




    Mine also. One because it brings back memories fishing at Alamo Lake. We used to take the dirt road outside of wickenburg that leads to the lake. The road cut right through the forest. The second reason is if I'm going through the Joshua forest, it's because I'm on my way to Vegas or Laughlin
     
    #187
    Onautopilot likes this.
  8. Settingcanthurt, Apr 25, 2017

    Settingcanthurt

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    4,973
    Likes Received:
    3,479
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Flyover below the tundra
    Tilapia and big Bluegills but bottom fishing the trees with 1/2 oz lead head crayfish lures are my favorite memories. Watching the wives screaming I GOT ONE!! as the bass works the hook free and splashes back into the lake. Get it over the boat!!. Spent a few winter nights on that lake. Gets cold in the boat. But you have the lake to yourself. Need some Purple worms? They dont work here in MN.
     
    #188
  9. Settingcanthurt, Apr 25, 2017

    Settingcanthurt

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    4,973
    Likes Received:
    3,479
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Flyover below the tundra
    NAW. I think it's the hoodwinking taking place selling the technique. Along with the necessary claims to do so that feeds your passion. However one wants to toss dice means nothing to you. Fun to watch.
     
    #189
  10. AzDice, Apr 25, 2017

    AzDice

    AzDice Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    405
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for the offer. I was never good with plastic or rubber worms. I couldn't tell the difference between a bite or a bush/tree limb. My friend would ask...do you always set a snag.
    It was my friends boat and we only fished in the summer. He would leave it at the wayside bar storage. His boat, his rules. We would use crank baits,spinners or topwater baits in the morning and then go to trolling with crank baits as the water warmed up. Rapala shad color #5 was the best lure for that. I lost a lot of lures 15' deep fishing like that.
    I'll take some trout lures.
     
    #190
  11. TDVegas, Apr 25, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,080
    Likes Received:
    9,773
    and lets be clear...Heavy's 8.3 SRR claim over 5 years IS Grandiose on an EPIC level. I would have to see how many rolls this includes...

    But...it's just not happening. Won't call him a liar. He's either the best DI this side of the moon or he's playing fast and loose with the data.

    I suspect the latter.
     
    #191
  12. tabletop123, Apr 25, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,271
    I won't knock anyone's abilities! Maybe he did maintain a SRR of 8.3 over 5 years! However, if that was the case, WHY in the Shit would you work a job, & teach others how to do it? The Seminar stuff is just NOT worth the time! Easy money? Certainly, but I think I'd fare MUCH better "Just doing"! Of course, teaching others, for a nominal fee is the humanitarian thing to do......Right? Lol

    I just wouldn't monkey around with The Seminars.......ESPECIALLY a job! You guys KNOW my position on the job " thingy"......A complete invasion of privacy! Lol
     
    #192
  13. TDVegas, Apr 25, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,080
    Likes Received:
    9,773
    The numbers are unreal...and let's understand he IS "selling" himself to generate tuition dollars/classes/students.

    We cannot summarily dismiss that fact in the "analysis" or question of his true abilities.

    Would never consider he's fudging the numbers higher?
    Right. :rolleyes:

    Guys like Heavy, Howard, tdb...and others who claim some AP skill..
    Harley
    $nakeEye$

    They are no different at this game than you, I or anyone else. The only thing they have going for them is they live closer to the casino, can play more often than you and depending on their retirement dollars...can either gamble less or more than you. None of them are extracting money from the table beyond getting lucky---like you. They win and lose (nut clippings) at the same rate as you. (notwithstanding the amount and wagers--table time subject to HA)

    Craps is a great game. 1 year player or 50 year player. Either can have a great day or a bad day.
     
    #193
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  14. tabletop123, Apr 25, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,271
    Dang it! Was gonna put a "Like" until you put Rick's name into the equation! Just as OAP is your buddy....Hard for me to say ANYTHING negative against Superrick!

    I know, i know........That's just the way it is! I can't help it!
     
    #194
    TDVegas likes this.
  15. TDVegas, Apr 25, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,080
    Likes Received:
    9,773
    Understood.
    I fixed it....;)
     
    #195
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
    tabletop123 likes this.
  16. TDVegas, Apr 25, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,080
    Likes Received:
    9,773
    I live close to the casino. Beyond that...you and I share no difference. If you play longer and subject more wagers to HA because it's a 2 hour drive for you---well, there is a good chance you will lose more. That's the nature of craps.

    Beyond that, geographically speaking---being close gives me no other advantage over you.

    I wish it did.
     
    #196
  17. tabletop123, Apr 25, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,271
    Ugh.....I beg to differ! You have an advantage on LESS MONEY on Fuel expense! Lol
     
    #197
    TDVegas likes this.
  18. TDVegas, Apr 25, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,080
    Likes Received:
    9,773
    True....lower minimums also helps:)

    the V-8 chews up at about 20mpg. Less than 5 miles each way. Gas here is 2.75?

    $1.38 in fuel? Shit...that's more than my pass line wager:)
     
    #198
    Onautopilot and tabletop123 like this.

  19. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    8,072
    Likes Received:
    6,860
    regarding your last line, where did anyone censor any thing you posted, ever?
    are you confusing something?
    maybe another board?
     
    #199
  20. TDVegas, Apr 25, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,080
    Likes Received:
    9,773
    When we had a guy here...can't remember his name...Fakeeye$ or something like that calling every other person here a fucking asshole, douchebag, dickhead and every other name I can think of on a daily basis---did tdbilly open his mouth to say "whoa there, lets not make this uncomfortable"....?

    Not a peep. In fact he sidled up to him on occasion.

    tdb is the LAST person who should be lecturing anyone on what he wants.
     
    #200
    Onautopilot likes this.