Vegas Casino Takes ~ Note Chart Craps Hold Up Above 15%

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by eagleeye2, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. gargoil, Nov 12, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    OAP, you and TDVegas and a few others on here are all class. You will never stoop that low to counter a Jack ass troll like James. However I will. I can be the biggest SOB on the forum when it comes to that troll. I can make snake eyes look like the Virgin Mary.

    That fucker James is trolling on this site and I've had enough of
     
    #381
  2. von duck, Nov 12, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    You treat your women like cattle? To this I can only ask, "how would you want your daughter to be treated"? We pretty much let the women run this country, because we know, left to their own devices, men will simply, just kill each other. What country are you from, anyway?:)
     
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  3. gargoil, Nov 12, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    Well since I have no children I would say you can do with her what ever you want.
     
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  4. von duck, Nov 13, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    One of the prices of freedom, is the responsibility, and duty to help others that are oppressed. To say, "do with her what you want", is to do injustice, to your citizenship, and to yourself, as a human being. To allow social injustice, is to invite yourself, to be the next victim. :(.
     
    #384

  5. eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    To ALL...

    With all of the Posts above, no one has definitively established ""Why the the HOUSE HOLD on CRAPS
    has gone up for the last NINE YEARS & is now @ 15.51% YTD 2017!

    eagleeye2
     
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  6. KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Most of we experienced/"expert" players have no problem leaving the house with a 100% hold.

    Thank goodness for the curious gambler who wanders over to the craps table to see what all the noise is about, pulls out $100, places and perhaps loses a bet or two, then slinks away with $80 or $85.

    EE, the WHY you seek has mostly to do with the high volatility and variance inherent in the game.

    Secondarily, if there is in fact an upward trend in the house hold, it will be helped by the house's introduction of VERY high HE wagers and by the houses use of such tactics as changing payout on mid table bets from 9 to 1 into 9 for 1.

    All this shit that the average player has not a clue about will result in a higher hold that the house is interested in seeing.
     
    #386
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  7. HornHighBLEVE

    HornHighBLEVE Member

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    Would the addition of the fire bet and ATS affect the hold that much?
     
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  8. von duck

    von duck Member

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    Look at the steady downward trend in roulette, over the same time frame, a game with much higher H/E than the others. :confused:Table hold is more a function of player habits than it is H/E. Without more info it's hard to put you're finger on the reason. The numbers may reflect, smaller buy-ins by the players, and therefore they are willing to "drop" a bigger %age of that smaller buy-in. This might also be dew< hey MsPee, to higher and higher table limits. How long does it take to lose 15.5% of a $200 buy-in at $25 tables. In any case, I don't think H/E has very much to do with it. :):cool:.
     
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  9. von duck

    von duck Member

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    Yeah they could, by attracting more foolish players, or more foolish play by experts, like Duh-Mango, for instance. Don't worry, he won't see this, I'm on his ignore list. Lucky Me.:).
     
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  10. von duck

    von duck Member

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    It would be very interesting to know, what the "drop"was across this same time period. I don't think we have enough information, to draw any hard conclusions. It could be that with the proliferation of gambling in the U.S. as a whole, that NV. Is dealing with a deference, in demographics. I would really like to know the answer, also. :)
     
    #390

  11. betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    whuttum i missing here?

    the "drop" should be easy to calcliate, no?

    since the "hold" is simply the drop (known virtually to the penny by the casino) minus the number of chips out (known close enough to the penny to be more accurate than your average economic, statistical analysis) and since we know the hold numbers as well as the hold percentages, it is simple enough arithmetic to figure out the drop, no?.

    knowing the drop, the amounts risked at casino bank craps, would certainly be "very interesting" but as for what conclusions one might draw from it are, as this thread indicates, up for discussion.

    honest question for my part: whattum i missing?

    tom p
     
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  12. von duck

    von duck Member

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    So give me the number then, SMARTASS. I will then show you, what conclusions, I can draw. I was under the impression that the "drop" was the amount, in the box, not the amount wagered. In my original post in this thread, I said that I believe that the wording in the article, was incorrect, and I think YOU are too. I do not believe anybody, knows what the total amount wagered was. So give me the number, if as you say, it is so easy. :cool:
     
    #392

  13. Liman

    Liman Member

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    oh boy, everyone get ready, the cut and pasting is about to begin.
     
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  14. gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    Liman, Memory fading fast. DUH

    You have a Short Memory, I have posted this several times:

    ELEMENTARY METHOD TO ESTABLISH FAIR or BIASED DICE

    I am starting a New Thread titled "ELEMENTARY METHOD TO ESTABLISH FAIR or BIASED DICE", to prevent B.S. like that TDV & others post here on the subject of ""Biased Dice use in Casino's""!

    Yes, I have published this several times before, but it simply gets buried.

    For those that want to LEARN, rather than accept current or past Casino Employee's B.S., as posted by the Casino Brain Trust, on this thread, read on!

    Typical LIE from 7uwin, TDV, etc. ""You claim to be able to detect Dice bias by logging rolls and determining that 7 is showing more than 1 in 6 rolls.

    I have NEVER posted, nor insinuated the above, as the LIAR 7uwin Posts!

    Here's What I have Stated:

    First: Be EXTREMELY CAREFULL of Very DARK RED DICE, as they have the highest likelyhood of being BIASED in favor of the Casino.

    Second: For starters, TWO dice make up the # shot, when playing CRAPS, which 7uwin attempts to ignore.

    One must ask, "Why Complicate analysis by dealing with the SUM of combinations of #'s, on TWO DICE, that add to 7, like 7uwin; LIES about me doing!

    Here's the mathematical way to rapidly detect Biased Dice in Play, in an actual Casino!

    1) Reduce things to the simplest mode.

    You can accomplish this by ignoring the SUM of # Combinations adding to 7's & focusing on the individual #'s. As 6~1 Bias has been the most prevalent Bias to date (a shift to 4~3 Bias appears to protect the Casino more) I will focus on it, but any other BIAS uses the same LOGIC presented below!

    Now, any # appears on a FAIR Die EXACTLY 1 in 6 throws, two dice in PLAY, any # appears on a set of FAIR Dice 1 in 3 throws & that is the KEY!

    You simply observe (No need to log on paper) the total # of 1's & 6's (on both dice) Vs # of throws. I mentally note this as follows ~ # Low # & # High # Vs # of rolls by a player. Noting that each player chooses from 5 DICE, all of which may not be Biased, (I typically feel that a 3 Biased Vs 2 Fair dice are employed), & therefore with every NEW Shooter, you must start any count over, due to dice change.

    For a single shooter & the same Dice, This could hypothetically proceed as follows:
    NOTE: Layout is ~ # 1'S ~ # 6'S ~ # Throws

    1, 0, 1
    1, 0, 2
    3, 0, 3
    3, 1, 4
    4, 1, 5
    4, 1, 6
    4, 1, 7
    5, 1, 8
    5, 1, 9

    Now, what would we have here?

    Well, we observed 5 1's in 9 throws of the Dice, when FAIR dice would have produced around 3 1's. The 5 1's observed, should have taken about 5 * 3 or 15 rolls of the dice, not 9.

    Prognosis, Highly Likely that 1~6 Biased Dice are in Play, with the above!

    Should your Total Count of any single # approach the Magic # of 3 Times the # of rolls, the Dice in Play are likely Fair for that #.

    The exact same technique can be used for; 3~4 & 2~5 Biased dice.

    One key to firmly establishing Dice Conditions, is the length of the roll. When you see numerous short rolls, you have little confidence in the Count, (although numerous short rolls are a sign of a COLD Table, or worse) as the Stick Man passes out 5 dice to each new shooter & you do not know the composition of those 5 Dice, as to Biased or Balanced.

    When you get 8 or more rolls, (with the same Dice), the Count begins to become meaningful. Add several decent rolls & your decision should be easy.

    When generating your Counts, it's best to make a note of the Dice Combination that produced the 7-Out for each shooter. Should you see say three out of four 7-Outs as 3-4, it's advisable to begin a Count of 3's & 4's Vs # of Rolls.

    And YES, those folks that do not observe Dice in action, prior to investing their Hard Earned $$$ @ a Craps table Are Considered to be amateur CRAPS Players.

    OneEyedBuzard
     
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  15. von duck

    von duck Member

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    What exactly is that Liman? :)
     
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  16. betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    YOU asked for no such number...nor did i claim that i could provide it: try comprehension

    you are correct that the drop is the money in the box...YOU said it would be "very interesting" to know the drop...i remember nothing about your earlier posts on the matter but in this one YOU inquired nothing about amount wagered...only now do your bring it up

    i had an honest question and admitted--twice--that i might be missing something...why the name calling and attitude? this says more about yourself than it does about me.

    the hold---as i correctly stated--- is the drop minus the number of chips out...not wagered chips would be "expected" to decrease the hold but they do not change the way it is calculated: drop minus chips out.

    i made NO STATEMENT & ASKED NO QUESTION about amount wagered...

    this is difficult for you & disturbing to you, i realize that you yourself are not the judge of how your own posts are perceived...

    ...but that is your own issue.

    tom p
     
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  17. von duck

    von duck Member

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    I said that I would like to know the number, you said in your usual bla-bla-bla, way that the drop number would be easy to figure, so let's have it, you blo-hard ass. Give me the drop number, using the info in the article. It can not be done.:cool:. I said that if I knew the drop across the same period it would help, in understanding the hold numbers, that's what I said. You said the drop would be easy to figure, so "put up".
     
    #397
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 3:16 AM

  18. von duck

    von duck Member

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    This is the post, BTL.:) # 25 in this thread, and by the way, it has not been altered.:eek:
     
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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 3:19 AM

  19. von duck

    von duck Member

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    EE2, since you are pretty good at coming up with gambling information, see if can find anything on the "drop" amount, at these games, during the same time period. BTL is giving me a bunch of shit, and there is a point that needs to be made. See what you can find. Thanks.:cool:.
     
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  20. KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Baron,

    Who gives a shit about the drop, besides those concerned about the quality of toilet paper their casino will be providing?

    Worry about how much you personally have dropped or collected.

    I probably don't need my neighbor, who is a math professor at CMU, to tell me the craps tables collect $15.51 for every C note through the slot.

    The fact that $15.51 is considerably larger than $1.41, and that it is increasing regularly, tells me that sucker-betting and increased house edge bets will do what casinos want them to do.
     
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