falcon...bro' we also have to stamp out the 1/66 or 1.51% house edge myth on the place 6 and place 8 bets. Another total total myth! (because everyone and us left out the variance) we will return in another thread for that! I hear you falcon brother!!! No freakin' way everyone that makes place bets on the 6 and 8 will lose 1.51% of the total bets made. Its a lie! An untruth! an expected value without value! It is a lie so the truth will not be told. But falcon will tell the truth about place bet ev and variance. Yahoo!!!