Tracking results

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by JimRockford, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. JimRockford, Apr 22, 2018

    JimRockford

    JimRockford Member

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    When I am at the table shooting, I have a certain way of setting and throwing the dice to produce the results I am looking for. Am I "influencing the dice" successfully? I have no idea! Anecdotally, I can find some good results and some bad. Anecdotes are not data. What we need is data!

    Does anyone have an inconspicuous way of tracking your rolls during a live game? I would love to able to have real data sets to analyze and determine how much the results vary from the expected random distribution, if at all. I thought about turning on a voice recording phone app and sticking it my pocket prior to shooting to capture the calls from the crew. Not sure I'd get decipherable quality with all the casino noise usually going on.
    Any thoughts?
     
    #1
  2. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 22, 2018

    The Midnight Skulker

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    "New shooter coming out...[clickety, clickety, thud]...Here's your drink, Sir...[crash, tinkle]...Jane, you ignorant slut...[expletive deleted] you, Cowboy. I'll have you know I am a highly educated slut with two advanced...Yeah, I noticed. Too bad you suck at...Suck is just a figure of speech...One hand on the DICE, Sir...How long -- I mean, much on the hard 10 now?...I'm off and on. Jane...[clickety, clickety, thwack]...Cube in the boobs. Too tall to call...Same boobs requested...Electronic devices are not permitted at the table, Sir. You'll have to come with us. [click]"
     
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  3. Dave G Ct, Apr 22, 2018

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    DeMango should be able to give you some advice.Above my pay grade lol
     
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  4. KokomoJoe4, Apr 22, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

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    The notebook you sometimes see a player scribbling numbers into when at play likely serve this purpose.

    While these players might be tracking the numbers to determine how to bet this time or next time, they might also be used to see how the outcomes obtained compare to expectation.

    In either case, it amounts to being after the fact results/history, and a small sample size on which to check for the results he is looking for.

    It should come as no surprise to anyone that these results can and will show great variability from session to session, and will more and more conform to expectation as the size of the data enlarges.

    It comes back to what we are taught about random results when we are kids: Anything can happen, there is no accurately predicting what will come next, there is no control over the process, and that the math will accurately predict the results over a large enough sample size.
     
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  5. JimRockford, Apr 22, 2018

    JimRockford

    JimRockford Member

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    Well, that's the question, isn't it? Are the results truly random? Understanding of course that small sample size is relatively meaningless and this would be a long term endeavor.

    100% certainty might never be achievable with one player's lifetime of rolls, but some lower percentage of certainty may be illuminated with some significant number of rolls. Of course, there is no analysis without data.
     
    #5
  6. twodicebilly, Apr 22, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    jim

    Jim i have tracked for years..... both on my table and others....

    I tried to explain one of the best ways i track on here, but one of the site regulars did not think
    much of my way of tracking and destroyed that thread...

    Understand, none of us do the same thing so when i indicate these two things to you I am not suggesting
    this is the best way or only way.....this is just my way!!!!

    Two ways...

    First i watch the sevens i get , but that i mean it is a 6/1 5/2 or 3/4 The reason i do this is
    because if i am using an in line set of 6/4 4/6 , any 1/6 6/1 is a primary face hit....like this....i just went to
    my table and threw 2 shots.... the results were 6/1 and 1/6..... that meant that both results were primary hits.
    the top and back side finish of the dice as they were set..........now i will throw two more.....with a set change
    which is the 1/4 turn rotation of the front die.....i got 1/2 and 4/6...the 1/6 is gone.

    With this set i hardly ever get a 5/2 or 3/4.....

    If i can get rid of the 1/6 6/1 that means my set change , changed the results, that works for me
    as long as i don't get more of a different kind of 7.

    Record what your dice do when you change sets.....

    The other way i record which can be done at home or a casino is the number of shots i average
    after i make an intended set change.... I throw the dice and if i get a 3/2/11/12 or seven that is not
    counted....if i get 7,7,11, and then make a set change i don't count the 7,,7,or 11, they mean nothing
    to me... those rolls only provided information....after the set change if i throw an 8.... that is roll number
    1, and so on until i throw the 7 which ends the hand.... i want to know the number of shots i roll after the
    set change..... at a casino, i want to be able to compare how many shots i average at one casino
    as compared to another.....again after the pass number is determined. I average a couple of shots more
    per hand on tales that fit me than i do on tables that do not.

    Many other players have different things they keep track off, i want to know the best set to use that
    day and where i should be playing.

    twodicebilly
     
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  7. eagleeye2, Apr 22, 2018

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Most of the above discussions talk about DATA & Sample Size, what a HOOT!

    DATA & Sample Size mean absolutely NOTHING until you have FIRST developed a SET & THROW that minimizes the # or 7's hit, compared to that which the Statistics, of Two Six Sided Fair Dice present; or Maximizes the number of hits of a specified # or #'s obtained Vs that which the Statistics, of Two Six Sided Fair Dice present.

    The above implies that significant practice must occur, with charting of the results. Only when you can be confident that you have achieved results as outlined above, can you expect to WIN when shooting Dice on a Craps Table at any CASINO!

    eagleeye2
     
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  8. von duck, Apr 22, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    A recording device might be best, just make the calls yourself , 6/3 5/4 4/1, etc. be totally giddy about it, the stupider the better. I know FredP. :)
     
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  9. tabletop123, Apr 22, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    TRUE On Axis results are very hard to attain. However, if the end results of your toss display the pre-set dice configuration.....you have done very well. Keep your pre-set numbers consistently in the tossing plane after the dice come to a complete stop & you're gonna have the best of it!

    I think that teaching Off Axis tossing is bullshit because youre teaching something that occurs naturally. You DONT have to hold the dice " like so"...toss the "like so", & then PURPOSELY toss them in a way to knock them off Axis.
    How ya gonna take credit for something that occurs MOST TIMES...... naturally?

    Look......a die flips over off of the pre-set number/s without any SO-CALLED influence..... THAT'S what dice do!
    The very best shooters consistently keep their dice set numbers in the tossing plane at the end result of the toss.....PERIOD!

    Everything else is just bullshit!
    Setting the Hardways set ( or any dice set), & then tossing them & saying: "I am PURPOSELY knocking a die off Axis" when one of the die flips out of the tossing plane. Lol

    GIVE ME A FU**KING BREAK!
    The more PRIMARY hits...the more CONTROL that you are imparting on the dice.

    The more that your pre-set numbers result in the tossing plane....the more INFLUENCE that you have imparted to the toss.

    All if this " I just avoid the Seven", & let the numbers fall where they may?.....RANDOM!
    Ya know......we always hear: " I use this particular dice set, & it gives me longer rolls". Bullshit! It's simply Confirmation Bias!

    If that was the case....there would be a ton of Dice Influencer's with their "Special" Dice Sets....raping the Casinos on a consistent basis!

    THERE'S NOT! Well......at least I haven't met one yet, & they MUST be as invisible as the Loch Nest Monster!
     
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  10. tabletop123, Apr 22, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Incidentally, it doesn't matter HOW MANY times a die flips over.....as long as when it's all said, & done.....it flips BACK into the tossing plane.
    To think that a die ONLY flips out of the tossing plane once or twice after being tossed 7.5-12 ft into a pyramid back wall is....well....totally ridiculous!

    Slo-mo video shows ya the "Hard to accept" RAW deal of a Dice toss.
     
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  11. KokomoJoe4, Apr 22, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

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    So before a shooter becomes a so-called DI, data and sample size are meaningless, but after achieving greatness, data is to be used to show that in fact you are a good shooter?

    Question: If the so-called DI runs into a streak that suddenly pushed his overall data back into the red, should he revert to laughing at the information?

    C'mon EE2, the totality of the data is what is important. There will be ups and there will be downs. This is the hallmark of a random activity, which dice tossing is.

    We are not talking golfing or target shooting here. We are speaking of tossing dice across a 14 foot table.
     
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  12. Freddyy, Apr 22, 2018

    Freddyy

    Freddyy Member

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    People think being a DI is shooting 30+ rolls every hand.

    Being a DI means making a positive deviation in repeating numbers over time period X, but making X repeat itself on another session.

    Which means, less seven, less craps, more box numbers then expected in the standard deviations. It’s not a godmode never seven out. It’s a little bonus on expected outcome.

    The main error most said DI do is to expect to throw 20 numbers every hand.
    My way of thinking is get profits in 10 rolls then rest is icing on the cake.

    I had a good session in the last two times I played which I was nailing 8-9’s hard. So I cut out most of my betting on other numbers and went on to hit something like 8-8-9-9-9-9-6-8-8-9-9-8-9-11... you see what I mean. And I didn’t do it just one time...I did it on most times I had the dice.
     
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  13. twodicebilly, Apr 22, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Freddy

    That is what this is all about.....see what is happening at the time your playing and take
    advantage of that...

    tdb
     
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  14. twodicebilly, Apr 22, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    eegley2

    You cant accomplish progress or do certain things to make progress unless you have the
    records that show where you are...

    BY this i mean if all i was doing was throwing the dice and counting the rolls, one time 4 rolls with a
    6/1 nest hand i had 6 ending in 1/6 and the next i had 5 ending in 6/1 ...

    I did nothing but stand there and throw. You have to change something and then see if that
    change did anything...


    tdb
     
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  15. tabletop123, Apr 22, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Gotta disagree with you SLIGHTLY there Freddy! Ya might not necessarily decrease the number of Sevens beyond probability ( Rightside Shooting). As long as you can take a Dice Set, & hit numbers beyond probability. That's what counts.

    What's wrong with using the 3V, & tossing...10pt, 8, 5, 6, 4, 6 out, with SOME degree of consistency?
    Now, at first glance it appears to be a regular "Shit" hand. However , upon careful review....ya had 3 numbers that the 3V dice set SHOULD produce.
    A Seven roll hand from start to finish with three winning numbers that the 3V dice set dictates SHOULD be there!

    Of course the "dreamers" that think a good shooter SHOULD toss 10 times... most times that they get the dice ..cannot see the beauty in such a short hand.

    Listen.....all ya need is just two of the numbers in your Dice Set to hit per hand & you're gonna do okay.
    Yep...ya might not make a killing but you're gonna be net profitable in the end! That's all that really matters.

    Personally, I think that asking for 8-10 roll hands CONSISTENTLY is asking a bit much. I also don't think that most Di's are averaging 8-10 roll hands consistently.

    Most have no clue because they don't keep accurate records, & if ya challenge their memory ( which is ALWAYS confirmation biased), they'll SWEAR to you that they DO average 8-10 roll hands, & call you a " lying, treacherous dog for even insinuating that they PROBABLY are mightily mistaken about their averages!
    It is what it is!
     
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  16. tabletop123, Apr 22, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Yep..sometimes your advantage is not playing, & coming back another day.
     
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  17. AzDice, Apr 22, 2018

    AzDice

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    Someone on YouTube has a way to track if casino doesn't like pencil or pen and paper at the table. He tracks with the chips. I think it's the dice coach
     
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  18. eagleeye2, Apr 22, 2018

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    KoKo,

    You are putting the Cart Before the Horse again!

    Enhance your Reading Comprehension, then re-read my POST, DUH!

    ""Most of the above discussions talk about DATA & Sample Size, what a HOOT!

    DATA & Sample Size mean absolutely NOTHING until you have FIRST developed a SET & THROW that minimizes the # or 7's hit, compared to that which the Statistics, of Two Six Sided Fair Dice present; or Maximizes the number of hits of a specified # or #'s obtained Vs that which the Statistics, of Two Six Sided Fair Dice present.

    The above implies that significant practice must occur, with charting of the results. Only when you can be confident that you have achieved results as outlined above, can you expect to WIN when shooting Dice on a Craps Table at any CASINO! ""

    eagleeye2
     
    #18
  19. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 22, 2018

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I have never charted any casino game with paper and pencil, but I have been at craps tables with those who did. (I don't think physical implements are permitted at other table games, particularly blackjack (card counting) and roulette (dealer signature).) I have never seen any of these players given any grief, including a father/son team that was cleaning up.
     
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  20. James Hall, Apr 22, 2018

    James Hall

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    bet the trend beginning to end
     
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