Total Newb's First Craps Game - Suggstions?

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by crispcem, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. crispcem, Apr 14, 2018

    crispcem

    crispcem Member

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    Hello all! I bought in at $100 and I survived with a (small) profit throwing for 8 hours. First time throwing, no experience or knowledge, just trying to play and learn watching and betting. Many people came and went, some lost all their chips, others won but not bigly. At one point for several hours I was hovering at $300 in chips and should have walked I guess, not knowing what I'm doing. These are my observations and hopefully someone here will kindly steer me in a smarter direction.

    Instead of Pass line bets I was playing Don't Pass. My observation was that most people don't roll a 7 or 11 first throw out. Even on my own come out throw I was posting Don't Pass. I don't know if this is what kept me in the game so long, but way more often than not my original Don't Pass bet would ultimately come back to me in the end on others' throws, to at least keep me even if I'd lost somewhere else. I thought this a safe strategy. Anyone here that could help me understand how to develop further a Don't Pass strategy? I now read that the Pass line bets are best odds/favored for players, but that didn't seem to be the case around my table. I might be way off, but it seems more strategic to bet with the house and then nibble off some cheese here and there??

    My strategy was to bet heavy when I was throwing, back off a bit and watch how the other players were rolling. I learned after 8 hours that some people do not throw 'my' numbers, and they seemed to do this consistently, so I'd either not bet when they were throwing, or do modest Field bets with a Don't Pass on the thrower.

    I kept to making Place bets, usually on 6.8,9,10, sometimes covering all if someone was throwing well. And in spite of what I've now read about Field bets being 'bad', I would clean up over and over on those, especially when I was throwing. I would rake in $30 profit on a $15 bet and come back in with maybe $5 or $10, always reserving my profit back. That seemed to work great while I was throwing and when my 'favorite' rollers were throwing I could stack 4-5 times in a row. Call it chicken ***t gambling, but I was there to learn.

    Many times while in control I'd Place on a number right before rolling, and roll it. What I don't understand is if when I Place bets like 6.8.9.10 etc, I can remove those bets at any time - I don't think so, right? Only my own odds bets behind a Pass Line bet? The only time I'd use the Pass Line I'd add a $1 'crap bet' as security. I really have no idea what I'm doing but I figured if I could walk out ahead of the game after 8 hours it was a good thing. My streak got broken when 3 drunk women came up to me and started asking me questions which I wasn't interested in answering, they stuck their hands over and actually got hit with the dice several times and they couldn't make up their minds if they were buying in or not. They were to my right and dice would have come to me next (when I make my money) so I walked when they bought in with $10, I was tired anyway. lol. Anyhoooo, if someone has a good strategy for using the Don't Pass and can give me pointers, I'd be most appreciative. I'm not the brightest with numbers but I do know how to have fun...
     
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  2. Onautopilot, Apr 14, 2018

    Onautopilot

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    If you just stick to making a don't pass bet......it's as good as you can find on the table (odds excepted).

    If you decide to make "place bets" you can take them down or call them off whenever you like....they are not contract bets.

    Read some books, or search the internet for other ideas and opinions. Then decide for yourself where you want to be with the game of bank craps. Good luck!

    And if you are "real", or almost real, welcome to the forum! :)
     
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  3. von duck, Apr 14, 2018

    von duck

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    :cool: Great photo Ma'am. If it's fun your looking for, you've come to the right place. I recommend you hook-up with TDVegas, our top "party" guy. From the photo you appear to be a match-made-in-heaven. He knows all things crap, and will gladly offer any pointers he's got. :) He is also an expert on the don't pass bet, and all other bets for that matter. :rolleyes: He's a big fan of bubble craps cause he can buy-in for $20 without embarrassing himself. :D Party-on, and have fun.
     
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  4. yacraps, Apr 14, 2018

    yacraps

    yacraps Member

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    Td is no where to be found.. but yet..... all I can say is at the 50 sec mark :rolleyes:
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  5. crispcem, Apr 15, 2018

    crispcem

    crispcem Member

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    Hey there! Thanks for the replies everyone! Please,anyone who loves playing the darkside please chime in. I'm unsure if I can place stacked odds bets behind the line like pass line odds bets are done (where would I place don't pass?), or is this not permitted, or casino to casino basis? Also, am interested to learn strategy for odds on don't come bets or how to double, how to call that out and which point numbers are good for that (not 6's, 8's?) it's a bit hard to flip all the online advice geared for pass line/come players, gets confusing. Any help is greatly appreciated, please excuse my obvious beginner questions...and thank you for all the good posts on this forum, am learning something new all the time. :)
     
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  6. yacraps, Apr 16, 2018

    yacraps

    yacraps Member

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    this is one of many videos you can start with at min 3:08 he explains the odds bet enjoy
     
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  7. crispcem, Apr 16, 2018

    crispcem

    crispcem Member

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    Thank you! going there now!
     
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  8. random_roller, Apr 16, 2018

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

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    Welcome to the forum, crispcem.

    I know several dark side bettors who wait until a point has been established before they start making Don't Come (DC) bets. Their rationale is a PL betting shooter is hoping/setting for a 7 or 11 on a come out roll (both losers for the DP); once the point has been established, the 7 is a loser for PL bets. So -- in theory -- once a point is established the DC bettor is arguably more afraid of the 11 (only 2/36 combinations) on that come out, as the PL betting shooter will be trying to avoid the 7. Whether the PL betting shooter can be successful avoiding the 7 for that one roll is another issue. Also, the DC bettor won't be on the same point as the PL betting shooter. A PL betting shooter can hit his point, then immediately roll a come out 7, making both bettors (PL, DC) happy. That won't work for a DP bettor. If the PL betting shooter wins, the DP bettor loses, and vice versa.

    Once you have enough time at the craps tables, you will have seen all sorts of crazy things happen w/r/t dice rolls. Over the years I have come to conclude sometimes there is just no explanation what happens when dice are rolled at a craps table in a casino, other than perhaps sh*t happens. I've seen 6 straight natural PL winners on a come out roll and many have undoubtedly thrown more. Perhaps way more. Similar streaks happen with craps numbers on the come out. Yesterday, I threw 4 straight craps numbers during one come out roll. Since I had bet the All Tall Small (ATS) bonus bets and had a $5 crap check, I was happy with the rolled craps numbers.

    Have fun & good luck at the tables. I hope you win big...unless you're betting the dark side on the same table while I'm betting the good side. :D
     
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  9. far out, Apr 16, 2018

    far out

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    For crispcem. Read your post and have to say you have some good sense here. Oh, I have played with some who will place the 6and 8 and will take them down after 4 rolls. They think that the 7 comes on average every 5 to 7 rolls?? It seems to work for them at times also. Oh, you can take down a place bet or a prop bet any time you choose also. You seem to have a system that is close to working well for you my friend! Happy rollings!!
    far out
     
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  10. crispcem, Apr 17, 2018

    crispcem

    crispcem Member

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    Oooh I really appreciate all this info! Okay, so on the advice of Onautopilot I've been working the simulators. My first sashay with Wincraps was too good to be true as single player - up $600 something in about 15 minutes with $25 bets - it went downhill on the next session lol. Inching my way back up from a miserable $200 loss of $500 nut is not fun.
    @random_roller, since I'm single playing on the simulator, I'm the one establishing the point. At first I was stacking up don't comes - it doesn't work well lol. I *think* I learned to add only one don't come besides my point and just grind away to see how the dice get thrown. Nibble some field bets here and there, and though this might sound disgustingly stupid, was also placing a few Big 6/8 bets when my own point was, say, a 10, and I had a don't come 4. I figure if I can survive several rolls without hitting 10/4, it gives me some option to capture a few small bets meantime on 6/8. Is this utterly stupid?

    I have to say the Win simulator does not seem to deliver rolls the way it was happening in my meager 8 hours of live craps experience. I never saw three comeout 7's in a row while live (the demon inside the Win-machine?) and am suspicious of how accurate this 'randomness' really is. I swear that my own rolling while playing don't pass was absolutely devoid of 7's. I might have thrown 7's on comeout myself maybe TWICE over 8 hours (???) and others weren't doing so hot either playing pass.

    At this short date of experience have come to the conclusion the Dice Gods are fickle inside the Wincraps sim - until I actually step into a live situation again to assess. But I do believe your stories of strings of craps rolls. I am of the persuasion that it is our minds and will that can *wish* the dice into performing for us. I know some of you reading just spit up your coffee....carry on :D

    @far out - Do you mean as a darkside player, to also make Come bets on 6/8, while making Don't Come? I just tried your place bet scenario with an 8 while having a don't come up and that worked 1/2 the time, so I can see its usefulness. If I can take place bets down quickly I can see that working out much better than Big 6/8 The problem with these damn simulators is that I'm not actually learning correctly. I've read everything in the Wincraps library and still have questions - some of them glaringly embarrassing ones....as I'm not getting a break from my own come out rolls. When I've lost my point and puck goes off, I still have chips like don't come and come on the table and no way to retrieve them (if they can be taken down in live throw) This is the problem with sims. If I don't have to be tossing out more chips on the P/DP line constantly like it's some barking seal clapping hands for more sardines, I might reserve my nut better eheheh.

    Which leads to another question...does anyone ever just go balls to the wall with a major P/DP line come out bet? It's only money, right? Take a gamble on one throw and either be out or in for more $$ to spread on your own throws, then just slog out the C/DC's and pray? Better a cautious entrance testing the waters and then place odds later as you see the situation unfolding (the video helped @yacraps, thanks!)? I know there's some nut in the DP odds timing about what to look for with a good point number up, and a certain don't come number, just haven't figured it out yet. This is like some mysterious galaxy of bets and gizmos - the 'Horn' has attracted my attention after a parlay there which paid off handsomely. How many people here like to place Horn bets for the come out? Isn't that where the excitement is and couldn't that cover a diehard DS player's wish for total domination? ;) Chime in chime in! I love all your stories!
     
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  11. random_roller, Apr 17, 2018

    random_roller

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    Computer craps simulators can provide some useful information, but IMO they are not able to fully replicate the casino experience -- even if the (pseudo) random number generator is properly implemented. How would the programmer realistically simulate inevitable "bad karma" at the table when someone buys in during the middle of a good roll or a die that hits someone's hand? It's all random? I'm not so sure these "bad karma" events (taken in their entirety) result in truly random outcomes (YMMV) -- they're referred to as "bad karma" for a reason. Alas, there is no way to conclusively prove either side. Oh, and God forbid if someone utters the word 'seven' at the craps table, but again, Wincraps doesn't appear to be affected by such an occurrence. But once that happens, you "know" what number is coming at the table, lol. The take away is I'm not totally convinced Wincraps -- or any other craps simulator -- can realistically simulate the craziness that often happens on a craps table in a casino. And if you're betting the wrong side of "bad-karma" inspired craziness, it will absolutely drive you...well, crazy. But I think the Wincraps can be helpful as a learning tool. If nothing else, it can help you learn the correct payouts of the various bets. Okay, enough of that.

    IMO, the most important rule of gambling is never bet more than you can afford to lose. Period. That rule should be inviolable. When you first start playing craps in a casino, you're probably not playing with a $5K or $10K bankroll. Perhaps you have $200, $300 or $500 to gamble with. That's okay, you can still have a good time at the tables and, if you're there at the right time, come out ahead for the session. Knowing when to leave the casino -- and actually leaving -- will save you some $$$ in the long run. Take some money off the table before you aggressively press or make new bets. Don't be afraid to take down or turn off a non-contract bet if you have a hunch "bad" number is imminent. You won't lose a bet that is turned off or has been taken down. Finally, when things get ugly, a $5 table is far more forgiving than a $25 table, all other things being equal.

    I hardly ever play the dark side. Just a personal preference. The exception is when I'm laying the last number needed to complete an All Tall Small (ATS) bonus bet or point #5 of a Fire Bet. But the ATS and Fire are high(er) house advantage bets that you probably shouldn't be too concerned with at this point.

    The Field Bet is a mixed bag. Since it is a loser on the 5, 6 & 8 (and, of course, 7), there are 16 ways to win, 20 ways to lose, resulting in a 2.78% (3x on 12) or 5.56% (2x on 12) house edge. Bet this one sparingly, unless you already have the 5, 6, & 8 (or at least 2 of those numbers, if you are willing to take a greater risk) covered by a PL, Place and/or Come bet.

    Avoid the Big 6/8 bets, as that is an even money bet. Place the 6 and/or 8 (in multiples of 6) and it will pay 7:6, which is better than even money paid on the Big 6/8 bets.
     
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  12. KokomoJoe4, Apr 17, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

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    Playing the Don't as you described is not a bad way to go, especially in terms of being likely to see more winners than losers IF you get past that come out roll.

    Once safely behind a number on the Don't, you are either a 67%, 60% or 54.5% favorite to see the seven before the 4/10, 5/9 and 6/8.

    Bad thing about this is that if you choose to lay odds as the favorite, you are going to lay out more than you will win, but this is fair because you are the favorite. With this information, you make the decision as to whether or not you will lay odds.

    A suggestion - do not lay the odds. Instead, go out on the Don't Come with a second bet, again hoping to survive the come out roll as underdog, and make it behind another number again as the favorite.

    Now place another Don't Come, hoping for the same.

    There will be times that your three bets will all be sitting safely when the seven shows, giving you a triple winner. Other times, one, two or all three bets will get swept away as the numbers repeat. Even so, you WILL win more bets than you lose, as long as you get your single bets through that difficult first roll.

    Continued good luck with your play and continue to let us know how things go.

    Here's hoping for the [1][6] or [5][2] or [3][4], as long as they show at the right time. ;)
     
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  13. crispcem, Apr 18, 2018

    crispcem

    crispcem Member

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    Thank you so much for sharing everything with me. Everyone is giving me such good advice and am applying it.

    Today I had some a-ha moments on the sim trying out the 6/8 place on don'tpass/don't come scenarios. Am shunning the Big and it's helped enormously.:) I found a little triangle where I tried out various strategies - after surviving the roll out, either placing immediate 6/8 place and also a don't come same time (depending on the point #), or first placing a DC to see what # that brought and then place 6 or 8, to see how that would play out. What I think I discovered is there's a certain sweet spot where if I place a 6 or 8 or both, roll just a few times and replenish either one if hitting, then make a DC, I get the added benefit of either getting a 2,3 etc or also hitting a 6/8 and/or ending up with chips left on the table if my DC gets hung up with a point number roll to survive another roll out. Just kind of dance around between the 6/8 and a DC and no loading too heavy too late on any places. It really pumped up my sim account pretty fast. It's pretty amazing how you can hop back and forth between the place 6 and 8, hold off any DC number and win more. HAHA...yeah, am a little slow coming around to this, so thank you everyone with your 6/8 strategies. It's definitely more challenging playing the DS in terms of having to really watch and maximize bet timing and placement. I tried playing pass line and it seems the table is entirely set up for it and it flows easier in a way, but I like the challenge of having to learn the hard way I guess. DS is good for the brain.

    And thanks for the advice on putting aside $/walking, that's an absolute must I've learned throwing good money after bad on the horses. You have to know when to pass when the odds are not worth betting on the races. I need to check out the off topic threads and see if anyone here has Derby fever...:)
     
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  14. crispcem, Apr 18, 2018

    crispcem

    crispcem Member

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    HAHA! Exactly! Like paddling out on a 10 foot day with closeout sneaker sets.:D
    Wetting pencil tip, writing down in notebook....
    Yup. It's a bit messier on the loss. I tried this for a while on sim and don't think am going to do it live until I know a lot more.
    This is exactly what I've been doing along with some fast place bets on 6 or 8 in there. I try to stay at two don't comes with one 6 or 8 if I can, and those usually pay fast. Yippee!

    Everyone has been so wonderful sharing your wisdom, and am really seeing the difference in my wins! I know you all are craps nutty, I'm just surprised to find myself borderline obsessed lol. I have no idea how I survived 8 hours at the table and walked with a profit, seeing now how very little I knew then on how to maximize wins. I can't wait to try all this out live next week.:D
     
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  15. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 18, 2018

    The Midnight Skulker

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    @crispcem
    At this stage in your craps career I have very little to add to what others have already said. You are still learning what bets are available and how they get resolved; hence I consider it premature to offer any advice on strategy. At some point, however, you will get around to developing one, and if I may be so immodest I recommend reading my article in Casino City Times titled What Am I Doin' Here? Far too many players employ a strategy they read or were told about without having the foggiest idea if it matches their session goals.

    A regular poster of yesteryear here coined the phrase The Shape Of Possible Futures. What that means is that the way you bet determines what a graph of the possible results of those bets for a session will look like. (For example, is the distribution normally distributed or skewed to one side?) The dice will select the point on that graph that is the result of your actual session. You can change the shape of the graph, but the rules of the game dictate what the total area under it has to be.

    Meanwhile, back at the table ...
    I think it appropriate to point out a difference between betting the front side (Pass/Come/Place) and the dark (also called the wrong) side (Don't Pass/Don't Come) that has been mentioned only tangentially heretofore. Betting on multiple numbers front side, on a single roll you can lose all of your bets but win only one of them. The opposite is true if you are behind multiple numbers: you can win all your bets on a single roll but one of them is the most you can lose. This allows a Don't player to get into a position of having less actual money at risk than meets the eye...on that roll.


    Edit addition

    At the risk of tooting my own horn again I call your attention to another article I wrote that deals with table protocol. Being female you will probably get cut more slack than a dirty old man like me would, but it doesn't hurt to have friends in the pit.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
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