The Worst in 44 Years

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by betwthelines, May 14, 2016.


  1. Liman

    Liman Member

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    some of you people should really read what you post here.

    Casinos are a business. They are in the business of gaming, but their business is to make money off of gaming.

    all these long ridiculous posts about how the casinos are cheating using bad dice and why so many sevens, and so on and so on........what a crock of shit.
    Ill explain to whomever needs an explanation. Ill make it as simple as possible.

    Everything a casino does is deliberate. Casinos leave nothing to chance unless that itself is designed into a game to make them money. This is called the house edge, advantage, house take, whatever you want to call it.

    everything is done on purpose. from the price of a cup of coffee, to the craps tables.
    Nothing is left to chance.

    if a casino unknowingly or knowingly uses bad dice, it will only hurt them. Period.
    as soon as a few players notice a 7 every 3 rolls, or every 4 rolls, remember it has to be noticeable, and if any game of chance has any noticeable deviations from what the casino depends on, ITS DETRIMENTAL TO THE CASINOS TAKE!!!!!!!
    first 3 people notice it, then 6, then soon 500, and the casino will lose money.
    They depend on the, absolutely 100% on the randomness of dice rolls, because the game is designed around that randomness to generate a certain percentage of money for the house.
    if by any way or form the randomness of dice are changed, the casino loses its edge. And that cannot be tolerated by casinos.

    biased dice wont cut it, they will pull the bad dice. Im sure bad dice are made, but the casino WILL notice it, and pull them fast. A reason they change out dice, Yes Harley, I don't know when, don't care, change out those dice because once they can become biased after a lot of use, they no longer can count on that randomness that MAKES THEM MONEY!!!!

    its so simple......people just want to dazzle us with long posts and mathematical nonsense......yes, bias dice probably are in use here and there, but casinos will pull them as soon as they figure it out....because perfectly balanced good dice favor them more than dice that can become predictable.
    Slot machines depend on predictability. They have to be set.
    Dice tables depend on total randomness because the game is designed to favor the casino with perfect randomness.
    too many 7s will kill a casinos profit.

    its really simple.
     
    #41
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  2. Liman

    Liman Member

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    its my above stated reason that I believe craps bubbles may be eventuallyl removed from some casinos.
    machines can have glitches, something that will and can ruin the casinos edge.
    they wont tolerate it, Im just hoping me and my 2 buddies figure it out first and get a free ride for a bit.
    It wont be worth it for the casino to have to shut the machine down often enough to change dice and other things. I hope Im wrong.
     
    #42
  3. tabletop123, May 16, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Liman. You are an experienced player. You probably play craps more frequently than myself. HOWEVER, there ARE people that will stand at a table & lose every fu,,,,king dime they have, betting the "Rightside". When the dice are going three rolls & out! Most players are "fun" players & they couldnt tell you how the last seven out occurred! In other words, the Casinos COULD (did NOT say they did) cheat people & half of these idiots wouldnt even realize it. They come to the tables with these big fat Cigars, wanting to be a big shot, & have NO FU,,,,,KING clue what's happening on the tables! Sure, You, myself, & other Savy players would remain cognizant to what's happening on the tables! MOST HAVE NO FRIGGIN CLUE if they are getting a fair game or not! ONCE AGAIN, i am NOT insinuating that the Casinos are cheating people, but you'd be suprised at hpw many people stand at a Craps table, under the "Ether", & have no clue as to WHY they are even in a friggin Casino! SOME would fare better saving the gas expense & commute, & just mailing their wallets in to the Casinos!
     
    #43
  4. TDVegas, May 16, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Some have a hard time believing that dice can be so bad...without something being wrong with the dice. Like this thread suggests...BAD, AND I MEAN BAD runs happen. Some worse than others. Some not so bad. Some longer than others. Some shorter.

    The dice are fair. Short term variance can yield the most screwed up combinations and results that it will make your head spin. It DOES happen.

    It's not bad dice, it's not bias dice. It's craps.

    If your mind tells you the dice are bad in this casino and it's stuck in your head that you are being cheated---knowingly or unknowingly....you run out of there like you have never run before....NEVER to return.
     
    #44
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  5. hartzehn22, May 16, 2016

    hartzehn22

    hartzehn22 Member

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    TDV- I don't know how you can say "some have a hard time believing that dice can be so bad....without something being wrong with the dice. The dice are fair. Short term variance can yield the most screwed up combinations and results that it will make your head spin. It does happen. It's not bad dice, it's not bias dice. It's craps."

    TDV- How do you know all this for sure?? Do you track the tables or are you just kind of guessing that the dice are not bad, not bias, just simple variance? How do you really know?
     
    #45
  6. TDVegas, May 16, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Well...send me the mathematical information that PROVES the 2 dice in question are biased and providing bias results as opposed to short term variance. The roll data would likely be enormous---how do you exclude the other 3 dice that might be picked up? But, send me the thousands of rolls on the 2 dice in question and I can forward that data to some highly trained probability experts.

    considering there are 5 dice in the bowl...not sure how you or anyone is making anything other than a simple guess. I don't deal in guesses as proof.
     
    #46
  7. eagleeye2, May 16, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    TDV,

    As usual, you are WRONG!

    With 5 Dice offered by a Casino, the following applies!

    Until Onautopilot, TDVegas & midnight stalker can comprehend what is contained in the posting below, their claim of Expertise Gained, from being involved with Casino's, is pure hogwash!

    Keep in mind that the following posting makes no claim of the Degree of Bias, only that a "Measurable Bias Exists". It being noted, herewith, that there is but ONE Best Way to Establish Weight Bias, in any Object & that is to Place that Object on a Balancer Designed for that object & proceed to verify it's Balance.

    In Craps, to dig into all possibilities, when choosing from a set of numerous dice ( typically 5
    in Craps); we have to deal with each possibility of Combinations Separately, here are the possible combinations, selecting two Dice, from a random set of biased & balanced Dice:

    1) Select Two Non Biased Dice

    2) Select One Biased & One Non Biased Dice

    3) Select Two Biased Dice

    Of course, the relative frequency of each of the above would be dependant upon the ratio of Biased to Straight Dice, & could prohibit some selections, dependent upon the ratio of the two, which we do not know.

    #1 above) In this case we have a STRAIGHT set of Dice & the "Normal table of House Takes" (Link provided here: ( www.crapsage.com/craps_payouts.php ) applies. No change from normal occurs here.

    #2 above) In this case we have One Biased Dice, that by definition has one face, somehow, heavier than the other 5 faces. This face, by definition, statistically lands down at a higher frequency than do the other five faces. This violates the concept of ""Equal likelihood, that each of the SIX Sides, or Faces, of Each Die, will show up on any single roll"". Regardless of the resultant up #, which now shows up @ a higher Frequency, it must pair up with a Random Dice # from 1 to 6, on the non biased dice, thereby providing a Statistically Higher Number of 7's than that which would occur with Straight Dice. More Sevens = Faster Loss for the Do Better, No contest here.

    #3 above) Here, we have Two Biased Dice, which complicates the situation somewhat. We now have two Biased Dice, which each have a face somehow Heavier than the other faces of the same dice. By definition, these heavier faces land down at a statistically higher frequency than do the other faces of the same dice.

    As opposite sides of a Die add to 7, to obtain a 7 here, we need to get one of the Heavier sides to land up & match with the higher frequency of the lighter side up, that we are guaranteed to get from the biased Dice combination.

    This dichotomy of sides may appear to cancel out, but it does NOT, as that HEAVIER side, will tilt the Die over, when that dice lands on the bottom lighter corners due to Gravity. This gives a small edge to 7'ng out for two Biased Dice. Again, More Sevens = Faster Loss for the Do Better, Case closed.

    eagleeye2
     
    #47
  8. HornHiYo, May 16, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    OK TDVegas, this is the simple math for how to determine biased dice:
    1. It's a great canned excuse to use when you realize your new expensive shot ain't any better than your old random shot.
    2. It's a great canned excuse to use to explain to your loved ones and friends how you managed to lose your allowance at craps.

    I'm sure there are thousands of players who have lost to biased dice and can swear to their existence.

    Oh.... the math. You need not look further, the math part is just to the left of each sentence above.
     
    #48
  9. TDVegas, May 16, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Sounds reasonable. I'm dumbfounded why so many can't grasp it.
     
    #49
  10. hartzehn22, May 16, 2016

    hartzehn22

    hartzehn22 Member

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    TDV- if you don't "deal in guesses as proof" then how exactly are you calculating that bias dice don't exist? Are you crunching hundreds of numbers each night at live tables and then based on those numbers verifying that short term variance is occurring, making assumptions that what you see is actually fair and balanced dice? I'm dumbfounded as well.
     
    #50
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  11. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    Some posters here seem to claim there are biased dice almost everywhere you play. Some are so paranoid they think a pair of bias dice are going to jump up and rob them with a switchblade right in front of their house.

    I've read posts here where posters claim they can detect a specific bias in a matter of minutes. Then walk around from table to table doing so endlessly. (yes eagleeye2 I'm talking about you)

    I have just one question for these people


    WHY CANT I FIND JUST ONE FUCKIN' TABLE WHERE THE 7s POUR OUT OF THE SKY LIKE MANNA FROM HEAVEN
    LIKE THE TABLES THAT YOU POST ABOUT ALL THE TIME??????????????

    ALL I NEED IS ONE FUCKIN' TABLE TO GET RICH AND I CANT FIND IT. AND YOU FIND THEM ALL THE TIME AND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT........... LIFE IS JUST NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'll have to answer my own question THESE TABLES DONT EXSIST!!!!!!!!!

    Fair Dice = house advantage
    Bias Dice = players advantage

    As Liman posted above THE HOUSE LEAVES NOTHING TO RISK
     
    #51
    Last edited: May 17, 2016

  12. FredP

    FredP Member

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    Liman: Now look what you've done!

    Fred
     
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  13. FredP

    FredP Member

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    eagleeye2: Consider this: A die is so biased that only the 1 shows (a heavy 6 side). That would produce 2 thru 7 with equal probability. That contradicts everything you've ever said about how biased dice produce more 7s and help the casino.
     
    #53
  14. eagleeye2, May 17, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    7uwin,

    Not only are you an IDIOT, you are also a Blatant LIAR!

    Kindly Re-Post one of my posts where I made any comment even close to Your B.S. ""THE 7s POUR OUT OF THE SKY LIKE MANNA FROM HEAVEN""???

    Yes, I have warned the folks about Biased Dice, Which I am 100% Confident Currently EXIST at a High rate in Casino's!!!

    If you could comprehend anything from my previous postings, it would be for the folks to "Avoid Playing Craps in Casino's Employing biased Dice""!

    Contrary to your B.S. Only the CASINO WINS MORE with Biased DICE in play!

    Now, kindly tell the folks here which CASINO you are currently working for, DUH!!!

    eagleeye2
     
    #54
  15. eagleeye2, May 17, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    FredP,

    Set your Paradigm's aside!

    Study the Table I Provide in the Link below: I used an example of 100 throws, 60 of which were Normal despite BIASED DICE IN PLAY! (Yes B in the Table) But the other Highly Biased Rolls (from one dice) were all 1's!

    Now, that 6th Grader can comprehend that those 40 can only Match with #'s from 1 to 6, (Yes the only #'s on the second die) thereby Producing the Increased Rate of 7's...

    LINK:

    SORRY FredP, but mathematics states that any unbalance in CRAPS dice will produce more 7's, than the theoretical # obtained when shooting BALANCED DICE.

    Proof Follows:

    http://www.crapsforum.com/threads/american-craps-academy-aca-2016.12648/page-14

    Of course, one needs 1/2 a Brain to follow, which leaves TDV & all of His Aliases & Cronies out!

    eagleeye2
     
    #55

  16. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    The don't players pissed because they threw four 11s in a row
    The 6/8 players pissed because 5 shooters in a row didn't make one 6 or 8
    The right side players pissed because they shot craps 3 times in a row.
    The field betters pissed because they shot 5,6,7,8 six times in a row.

    It's craps and these things happen all the time

    If you think you're being cheated you need to find another way to spend your money.
     
    #56
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  17. eagleeye2, May 17, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    7uwin,

    Have you EVER answered a Question???

    i.e. Post # 54, this thread???

    eagleeye2
     
    #57

  18. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    Eagleeye2 needs a craps lesson

    Pass Line 2-3-12 you lose
    Don't Pass 7-11 you lose
    Field 5-6-7-8 you lose
    Come 2-3-12 you lose
    Don't Come 7-11 you lose
    Box Numbers 7 you lose
    Prop Box 1 roll you lose

    LOL..... People lose..... it just happens..... It's the nature of the beast


    "This is your brain....... and this is your brain on craps.........Any Questions?"
     
    #58
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  19. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    As Ive posted before I'm retired from the business And now own a small real estate company.........Buy the way I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.......You seem like a smart guy You interested?
     
    #59
  20. eagleeye2, May 17, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    7uwin, Verifying that he is a True IDIOT!

    Have you EVER answered a Question???

    i.e. Post # 54, this thread???

    eagleeye2
     
    #60