The Superrick, TDVegas, Challenge

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by superrick, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. betwthelines, Dec 24, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    sure, top...and remember per the bc rules YOU would be in complete control of what rolls "count" (stated before the roll, of course)...

    iow play your normal game, whatever with you are most comfortable... 72 rolls is not all that many but even so if it takes 2, 3, 4 sessions, so be it...of course multiple sessions might pose some logistical issues but nothing that could not be resolved...so if conditions are not just "right" or if you would normally be streaking for the cage, then just do so...you are in charge of all aspects of what counts in the challenge.

    unlike the other bc props even for a random roller the 12 or less in 72 is an even money bet...DIers are at an advantage in the other propositions only if they have the expertise that they claim...

    this good bet (better than you can get in any casino) was thrown out there in the interest of everything about the bohunk challenge: namely to see someone DO...

    and not just talk.

    i will be in vegas jan 8-18 and again off-and-on from late feb to late march.

    tom p
     
    #81
  2. Onautopilot, Dec 24, 2016

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    Why do you even question that TDV may be a skilled tennis player?

    Many people on here have claimed skills in various venues.....tennis, golf, bull riding, flying, metal detecting, pool, fishing, and so on. Those are viable skills one can learn, and there is no question they exist....there is evidence available/

    On the other hand, there is no "evidence" that the skill of beating craps through advantage play exists....no published stats, trophies, records, news articles, etc.

    When tdb says he is a skilled fisherman, or James says he was a pro golfer, or TDV says he played competitive tennis, I believe them because those are skills one can develop....whether the claimant actually posses those skills is only a matter of credibility, the skill its self is not in question, it exists by evidence.

    So when one claims they are advantage players at craps, it is not the claim its self that is in doubt, but rather that the skill exists at all. There is no creditable evidence that those skills actually exist.....so I and TDV and others, often question those claims based on that fact.
     
    #82
  3. superrick, Dec 24, 2016

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    Because some of the things that he has written don't add up and that is all there is to it! Everything that others write are just Anecdotal Claims, well if that holds true then he should back up what he is writing! We have guys that I have been on the tables with, we have guys that we know don't have a trust fund and they make their money in the casinos playing the game that others say can't be beating!

    TDVegas, said he had thirty years in the gaming business and if you put a timeline to it it doesn't add up! So it's about time that someone questions what he writes!

    I know that I couldn't prove to you anything about what some of these guys write and guess what I could care less but what I do care about is when someone in their sly little way of writing is calling these guys that I know a liar.
    Any challenge that any of you can come up with will never satisfy you! We could beat it and you would want something else! Some of these challenges have been beating before and they are still saying the guy just got lucky!

    Now, I put all of those videos out there to show everybody what really happens when the dice hit the tables to show that these guys are just ripping off their students. Let me tell you something right now, they hate me for doing that and I've been called every name in the books and have been lied about by them!
    The same thing has happened here with TDVegas but in his sly way of doing it, he doesn't look like the bad guy!

    So he can now show me how great he is on the tennis court and I will apologize to him!
     
    #83
  4. HornHiYo, Dec 24, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    Spot on once again OAP! This thread is a good example of a straw man and poisoning the well.
     
    #84
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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  5. HornHiYo, Dec 24, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    I have watched players buy in for $50 and less, and when they lose they are not laughing.

    I like to play craps. I find it intriguing. I enjoy playing and I usually have fun.

    Playing $5, $10, and $25 minimum bet tables is not foreign to me and I enjoy wins off any table. In fact, I enjoy winning much more than losing. So one could say then that I play for fun.

    For me the ultimate experience is having fun and winning.

    Not having fun and winning is next followed by having fun and losing.

    But not having fun and not winning are two places I do not want to be at the same time!
     
    #85
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  6. TDVegas, Dec 24, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Absolutely. You want to win. You are doing everything you can to win. You are playing to win. Saying you enjoy your time on the table and are having fun doesn't diminish or effect your goal of winning.

    I don't understand when Rick says anyone enjoying this game is "not playing to win". Makes no sense. I would play the game no differently whether I was there to win or there to have fun. It has no bearing on how one makes wagers.

    Now if someone says "I make stupid bets because I'm there to just have fun and goof around and I'm not trying to win"...that would be different.
     
    #86
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  7. HornHiYo, Dec 24, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    Bingo! I think of all the slot players that enjoy playing slots. I find it hard to believe a majority are playing just to get pissed off, to not win, or to get both pissed off and not win! Ditto for Roulette and Craps players.
     
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  8. Twelve4s, Dec 24, 2016

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Merry Christmas Rick, and speedy recovery.


    IMG_5547.JPG
     
    #88
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  9. Onautopilot, Dec 24, 2016

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    Not true! I would be more than satisfied with any replicable evidence of a claim being true.

    The problem being the time and effort that would be needed to satisfy the reliable replicable evidence part.

    In fact I have stated many times that I would be satisfied even on a lesser level. Example.....tell me what you intend to accomplish for that session, I watch, and you do as advertised, you have my attention. Do it a second time, and you have my full attention. Do it a third time, and I will get out my wallet and follow you around! :)

    I have never said that someone can not beat the game, I have expressed my sincere doubts though, I need to see it, or at least some evidence of it, not just hear about it.

    Challenges are, or should be, just a demonstration, that for described purposes, satisfies the claim to a reasonable confidence level. If that level of confidence was established prior to the demonstration, no one could claim, "luck", or variance as the reason the claim was actually demonstrated.

    Tell me what you are going to do, then do it.......I would have no problem with believing it!
     
    #89
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  10. HornHiYo, Dec 24, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    Did someone there wish for a Hot Rod?
     
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  11. Edward-ky, Dec 24, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    OK super Rick since you are the expert at craps what is a way to prove DI is real skill.
     
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  12. Twelve4s, Dec 24, 2016

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Rick is working on it.

    IMG_4878.JPG
     
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  13. twodicebilly, Dec 25, 2016

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    TDV

    Playing craps is fun, but when people talk about not mixing fun with
    making money your should understand that.

    If your only playing for fun you wont leave when your ahead in
    the first 15 minutes. If I am only playing for fun and it is apparent
    my shot is for shit tonight, I will continue to play until my wife is
    done with the slots. If iam only playing for fun I don't mind if the
    table is so full I will only get the dice every 45 minutes or when
    my buddies want to make it a night, I don't mind digging in my
    pocket 5 more times because they are not ready to go home.

    Everyone that enters a casino wants to win, but TDV how many
    are willing to make the best decisions when (fun vs winning)
    is really in question...... you have been at a casino enough to
    know the answer to that.

    tdb
     
    #93
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  14. TDVegas, Dec 25, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    In the randie world....
    Not mixing fun....?

    My goals are the same. Win limits. Loss limits. If it happens in 10 minutes, I walk. If it happens in 2 hours, I walk.

    If someone is playing the same strategy (as a random player)....it makes no difference to the outcomes of the dice whether you are playing for fun or playing "serious."

    If by playing for fun...a random player CHANGES his betting (goes with sucker bets let's say)....then of course there is a difference.

    Two players making the same exact bets....one has a serious face and the other is laughing and joking (having fun)....it makes no difference. They are playing the exact same way. Their expectations are the same.

    The argument that those playing for fun are NOT trying to win or not trying to win like the guy with the serious face is a joke. It's not true. If he makes bad bets..then you have an argument. If he has different goals (table time vs. loss or win limits)....then they are playing different and a comparison should not be made.

    I'm not talking about dice influencers who when they go to "play for fun" might bet on everyone vs. "playing serious" and only betting on yourself. Then you have an argument.

    In the randie world....playing for fun or serious makes no differences to the outcome IF they are playing the same game---making the same bets.

    We ALL play to win...unless we are making ATS or Firebets;)
    Then we are there to have fun...winning is secondary.
     
    #94
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
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  15. Edward-ky, Dec 25, 2016

    Edward-ky

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    The way I see it the more you win the more fun you have had. If you lose no fun at all. I can't ever remember when I lost and thought it was fun. If you lose and think it was fun maybe you need a session with TG Parker
     
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  16. TDVegas, Dec 25, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Absolutely. No fun to lose. Maybe I should say much more fun to win than lose. I think we are all in agreement there. Even if the session is an overall loss...there are probably moments during that time where we were having fun....maybe hit 3 points in a row....but if it's an overall loss when we walk---the overall fun factor takes a hit.

    Here is a scenario...would like input.

    Player A (randie) is a serious player, focused, doesn't chit chat. All business. He's there to win, not have fun. He plays pass line $15 with 3x odds. This is his playing strategy. No deviation.

    Player B (randie) is a fun, happy go lucky, talks to the cocktail waitress. He's there to have fun. He plays pass line $15 with 3x odds. This is his playing strategy. No deviation.

    Both players have equal bankroll and equal win/loss limits.

    Who has a better chance of winning? Who is more likely to win? Who is more likely to lose?
     
    #96
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
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  17. Onautopilot, Dec 25, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    Since I am always player "B", and never player "A", I really have no idea.

    But I suspect that I will be expected to fair better....since while chatting with the long legged cocktail waitress, I will probably miss several bets. Less bet handle = less expected loss. :)
     
    #97
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  18. twodicebilly, Dec 25, 2016

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    TDV


    I guess that was a total waste of time.

    There is a vast difference between a very good player and
    a randy...

    All you have done is support the notion you have no idea what
    a good player does differently than a drunk randy.

    What your saying is two guys get to the Muddy basis Colorado, one is
    in very good shape and the other 50 pounds over weight, one has
    been there the past 10 years and knows the land, the other has
    never been there before, one has taken 5 elk with a bow the other
    just bought his bow.....BUT... they both have an elk license and
    want to hunt elk so they hunt the same way????????

    You know better than that.

    twodicebilly
     
    #98
  19. TDVegas, Dec 25, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    I guess I wasted my time trying to explain it to you. I specifically said in the RANDIE world. Not dice influence or "skilled player" world. Did you not read my very first line?

    In the RANDIE world....It makes no difference.

    I don't believe in dice influence or skilled shooter. Therefore my opinion holds true based on those beliefs.

    I further stated I'm not talking about dice influencers. I specifically said that. Either you're not reading the post you are responding to or purposely ignoring my words.
     
    #99
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
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  20. DeMango, Dec 25, 2016

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Why everyone goes to the trouble of proselytizing TDVegas is beyond me. For thousands of posts by many posters. To no avail. And LIman, and OAP, and, and, and..... Let it go. You need TD to stay the same, you don't want to convert him or any other. Not like this is a heaven to gain and hell to lose.

    You prove to TD and BTL and OAP etc,etc and we will shortly be tossing out of a tin cup or pushing a button. Put the ego aside, please, for the rest of us.
     
    #100
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