THE HOLY GRAIL for CRAPS DEALERS

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by SevenOut, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. SevenOut, Sep 18, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    These are more advanced questions and probably maybe belong with the Holy Grail for Players... but the DEALER handles all of these bets to keep order at the table. If one person can get two of these correct... that is excellent. The questions might appear to be "loaded" but are not. They are mostly observational procedures with a Player's motivation added at the end. Try it.
     
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  2. SevenOut, Sep 19, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Controversy at the Craps Table happens, although rarely.

    If a controversy occurs... it is when the Stickman cannot make a call on the dice outcome as one or both dies are not in his vision. "Standard Procedure" is the Stickman or the Boxman make the call. The end Dealer in "emergencies". The players at the end of the table receiving the roll are also the "witnesses", but NOT THE DECISION MAKERS. The Stickman, Boxman or Base Dealer make a quick, decisive count and the errant die(s) are moved afterwards and moved if needed between the Base Dealer's open palm up, open finger and push the errant die so the die is readily visible to ALL. The Stickman can then retrieve the pair with the stick and return them to center table.

    The Strip Dealers School Craps manual covers these situations to the minute detail, so I will refer to those situations that are the most controversial. Since most if not all of you have experienced some unusual positions that dice may rest, I will make some comments afterwards and would appreciate some unusual dice behavior or situations input. If there IS any interest in proper dealer procedure on controversial calls, I will add later any those "dicey situations" that have not been discussed. I will browse some of my other dealer manuals if some other situations are discussed in addition to Strip Dealers manual as each school has its own quirks at times.

    I would not be surprised that the most unusual situations occur with dice control/influencers/setters working their "magic" and are by accident OR the Boxman makes a NO ROLL call, prompting the Stickman to "knock a die still rolling on the table".

    I had earlier mentioned about a situation where the Stickman pushes the dice in front of the WRONG SHOOTER during a game and this wrong shooter takes the dice and shoots. What happens when the Stickman or the Base Dealer realizes the error? It is called out loud NO ROLL and one or both dies are hit with the stick as soon as possible, so Players cannot see the decision total.

    Dealing by the BOOK:

    "When it becomes necessary to call a "No Roll" after the Dice are in the air, the Stickman should try to break up the roll by hitting the first die that lands, with the stick. By doing this the players will not get a chance to see what the call should have been. This way we avoid arguments. (page 32, item 55) I add... that the Base Dealer who also realizes that the wrong shooter has the dice, he can grab a die and toss it into the center table...

    If you have some interesting "calls" to add, please jump into the conversation. Even some calls a Stickman might make when one or two die bounce OFF the table are interesting.
     
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  3. jkluv7, Sep 20, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    I have witnessed a stick man stick his hand out and catch both dice in the air when he realized his mistake of giving the dice to the wrong player to shoot. It was an amazing catch !!
     
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  4. rudeboy99, Sep 23, 2013

    rudeboy99

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    When the stickman call's "No Roll!!!" for whatever reason, he and closest base dealer SHOULD try to interrupt at least 1 dies roll by hitting with a stick or snatching by hand. If they DON"T manage to interrupt the roll, the call of No Roll is still valid, but I hate it personally 'cause the players can get pissed.
     
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  5. jkluv7, Sep 23, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    I'll give the questions a shot, eh ?

    The VIG is already built into the Place bet. A $6 place on the 6 pays only $7, when the true odds ahould pay $7.40

    It is my ADVANTAGE to BUY a number when I can collect an extra 3 to 4 $ for the $1 BUY. The 4/10 are the MOST favorable and most preferred to BUY.

    LAY bets are always working on every roll. They can never be OFF. They must come Down if you don't want them anymore. However, I don't know the answer to WHY Place Bets are OFF on a C/O roll.

    You know that your Place Bets are OFF because they are always OFF on the C/O unless you call them ON.

    A BUY BET is indicated by a "BUY" token placed on top of the bet, generally blue in color with the word "BUY" on it.

    Jeffrey
     
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  6. SevenOut, Sep 24, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Excellent understanding of both sides of the table. I will have to find something a bit trickier to trip up some of the pros following my questions.

    Maybe you could post some questions yourself. Looks like you could have a few up your sleeve, as well.
     
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  7. jkluv7, Sep 24, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    I have Place Bets on the 5/6/8/9 and it is the C/O roll.... I want to work ONLY the 6...
    What does the dealer do to signify ONLY the Place-6 is working for my bets?

    I have a LAY of $40 on the 4 and a $5 HW-4 to hedge it. It is the C/O roll...
    What should I do before the roll?

    I have DC bets on the 5 & 9 with lay odds. The shooter is hot, picking off several of my Don't bets. I am DONE betting the Don'ts on this shooter.
    What should I do with my 5 & 9 Don't bets ?

    I have 4 COME bets with odds and a PL bet ($5) table. It is the C/O roll.
    Should I bet on the 7's? If so, how much?

    I have a $40 LAY on the 4 with a $5 HW-4. Shooter hits the Hard-4.
    What should I do ?

    The shooter is shooting toward my end of the table. I have a P/L with odds.
    How should I arrange my bets? Why?

    N'joi !!
    Jeffrey
     
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  8. rudeboy99, Sep 24, 2013

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    Excuse me for nit-picking, but the vig ISN"T included in either the price or the payoff of a Place bet, there is no vig involved with PB's. The reason that they pay off in ratios they do is this...take a $6 Place bet on the "8". Now break that bet down to $1 chips...your bet now will be made up of $1 "flat" and $5 true odds that pay out $6 to $5. So every time an "8" rolls your getting paid 1 to 1 for the "flat" part of the bet and 6 to 5 on the odds portion for a total of $7. This method is consistent with the other Place bets as well. A $5 PB on "10", break it down to $1 "flat" and $4 true odds that pays 2 to 1. If the "10" comes in the player receives $1 for the "flat" and $8 for the odds portion of the bet ($4 X 2 = $8) for a total payoff of $9 to $5. ;-P Most people don't realize why the PBs pay off like they do, even people in the gaming industry...this is the reason why.
     
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  9. jkluv7, Sep 27, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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  10. rudeboy99, Oct 7, 2013

    rudeboy99

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    I'll give it a shot...1) I think if you only want the 6 to work, that you'll have to take the 5, 8, & 9 all the way down, and have the dealer put an "ON" button atop your bet on the 6, unless the boxman totally savvy's that the rest are off. Otherwise, it's gonna look like shizzit to the "peek". 2) Remind the stick man that my HW is working 3) If you are DONE betting the Don't with this shooter, you probably want to at least take down your Lay odds, if not the two bets entirely. Personally I would be loathe to take down my Don't flat bets as they enjoy a 3 to 2 edge against the house. 4)If you are planning on keeping all four Come bets intact, that is rebuying the $20 in four $5 Come bets so you don't have to start over, then $5 bet on the 4 to 1 , hopping "7", would be just the ticket. If you aren't planning to keep your Come bets intact if a come out "7" is rolled, the a wager isn't necessary as you Come odds and Place Bet are off anyway. 5) Leave the HW up, and take the pay out to help refinance another $40 worth of Don't odds. 6) Try to keep your bets as low as possible, by that I mean you don't want a stack of small denom. chips, If possible, and you are located in the first 2 or 3 spots from the base dealer, you can kind of hide that PL bet behind the puck and assorted bets in the dealers work area.
     
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  11. basicstrategy777, Oct 7, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    Tell me how, when you have place bets on all box numbers, that you can only have the 6 working.

    777
     
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  12. rudeboy99, Oct 7, 2013

    rudeboy99

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    The only way I know to make the problem doable, is take the PB's on the 5, 8 & 9 all the way off the layout, returning them to the player, making the 6 work, then redoing the PB's once a new point has been established. If the table had a gaggle of on/off buttons, the dealer could theoretically mark the 5, 8 & 9 "off" while marking the 6 as working, I suppose. :red:
     
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  13. SevenOut, Oct 7, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    777 a very good dealer procedure question. Rudeboy understands that depending where you are playing, dealers have several options to use.

    I would take an Off button, about the size of a quarter dollar. There is Off on one side and an On on the other. They are usually stacked around the Boxman's bank. The dealer would reach over... or see the Stick has one or two buttons and ask for one or both. I would put an ON button on your 6 and your furthest place bet to the end of the table, put an OFF button. The dealer would just announce which bets are then not working, so the Stick and the Box Man hear the call and the button is a reminder... in case the dealer starts to pay an OFF bet.

    It can be done with One button by putting the ON button onto the six and announcing that the other place bets are OFF or not working.

    And like rudeboy said, if you are not going to work the other Place Bets, you can just call them down and the dealer will stack them up and stack them in the Come for you to pick them up.

    So, there are a few ways a dealer can do it. Just make sure everyone hears what is going on the table. If a Seven Out turns up on the next roll... the dealer will not take your other bets as losers.
     
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  14. jkluv7, Oct 8, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    Very good Rudeboy !!!!

     
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  15. SevenOut, Oct 8, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    [quote author="jkluv7" date="1380010915"]I have Place Bets on the 5/6/8/9 and it is the C/O roll.... I want to work ONLY the 6...
    What does the dealer do to signify ONLY the Place-6 is working for my bets?

    I followed Rudeboy's response and gave you some examples as well. The On/Off buttons are stacked with the Buy/Lay buttons and usually there are enough to go around at a table. If not, there will be plenty when the Boxman begins to bark at the other tables.

    I have a LAY of $40 on the 4 and a $5 HW-4 to hedge it. It is the C/O roll...
    What should I do before the roll?

    Jeffrey


    Oh, pretty devious question, but you are pushing "my buttons". Since you have a working Lay bet, AND you have $5 on the Hard Way four to hedge against the four being rolled on the Come Out for losing the Lay Bet, but in the event it is a Hard Four on the Come Out, you want the Stick to put an ON button on your Hardway Four. Usually on a Come Out the Pass Line players have their Hard Ways always OFF. The Stick can drop buttons for any combination players may request. It is rare, but in your case very prudent.
    ***************

    "I have DC bets on the 5 & 9 with lay odds. The shooter is hot, picking off several of my Don't bets. I am DONE betting the Don'ts on this shooter.
    What should I do with my 5 & 9 Don't bets ? " Jeffery


    If you are getting worried about getting picked off by a hot shooter... your Don't Come bets can be pulled down at ANY TIME. Although I would be more confident this hot shooter may run out of numbers soon, you do have the edge. It is more of getting out of a hot table when you are playing the Don't Come and Laying bets against the shooter.
    ****************

    "I have 4 COME bets with odds and a PL bet ($5) table. It is the C/O roll.
    Should I bet on the 7's? If so, how much? " Jeffery


    Your odds are OFF on the Come Out roll for your 4 Come Bets, so only your flat bet(s) are at risk. Throw a $5 chip on the Any Seven for insurance for your Flat Bets, call the Any Seven bet down if it wins and you lose your $20 in Come flat bets. This is why I like the Place Bets over Come Bets.
    *****************

    "I have a $40 LAY on the 4 with a $5 HW-4. Shooter hits the Hard-4.
    What should I do ?" Jeffery

    Take the Hard Way 4 winnings, and call the Hard Four bet down. Now you are only out $5 net.
    **************

    "The shooter is shooting toward my end of the table. I have a P/L with odds.
    How should I arrange my bets? Why?" Jeffery

    If it is me shooting, you are not safe no matter what you do. Keep the bets under a watchful eye in the event the shooter plows them over. The end dealer has a good idea whose chips are whose in the event the dealer's stack gets knocked onto your bets. If, after everything is cleaned up and you have one or two "extra" chips... it is not your responsibility to claim what is not yours or is your original bet. But, if they are looking for a loose chip... point it out and keep feeling good about playing an honest game. The Boxman just might make it worth your while, when comping play.
    *************** Seven Out & Over
     
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  16. jkluv7, Oct 8, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    Very nice SevenOut !!!
    My responses are above your reply.
    Jeffrey
     
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  17. rudeboy99, Oct 8, 2013

    rudeboy99

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    Ah, I should have seen the chip spacing thing as it's VERY important to make sure that the PL and PL odds are at least the distance of a die apart, thus ensuring a die won't somehow land perfectly "cocked" with possibly TWO very different results. While it's never happened at a game I was working, ( I make sure there's some room !), I have heard horror stories where it has occurred. Yeah, the stickman calls one number, the boxman calls something else, and the players think it's something else entirely...good way to instigate a riot!!! :coolsmile:
     
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  18. basicstrategy777, Oct 8, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    I've never seen a player requesting only one of his place bets working and not the others and the others remaining on the table. I venture to say no dealer here has seen it either. I believe the other place bets would have to be remove from the table.

    777
     
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  19. rudeboy99, Oct 8, 2013

    rudeboy99

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    Honestly? I can't ever remember a player making such a request either...it could really open up a can of worms, the heated conversation going somewhat like this...Player," I said I wanted the six to work, you moron!" Dealer," No sir, that was three come-outs back, this time you clearly said you wanted the 9 workin'!!", the dealer is apparently less than positive, you can tell by the disappearing quality of his convictions...Player," No it WASN"T!! that was the LAST come-out!!" Boxman." GD'it Murphy! Just pay him $7 and let's GET A ROLL!! You nincompoop! :coolsmile: " Murphy takes him off his X-mas card list and smolders for a shift or two...
     
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  20. SevenOut, Oct 8, 2013

    SevenOut

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    As you already know, when you are a dealer at a Craps Table, the customer is King or Queen! The player asks for you to do something that is not contradicting the game's rules, it shall be done. Smart or not, the dealer figures you may know something they are not privy too... hmmm, right.

    I see this more on Come Out rolls with Place Bets. They might want their Place Bet 6 and 8 working with their Hardway 6 & 8's, also working. You have to agree, Dealers never judge a player's competence. The dealers Take, Pay and Place Bets. If a bet is permitted... Yes Sir... and it is done!

    Isn't this a wonderful game. Especially if you are winning and sometimes when you are losing.

    Now if someone throws a Hop Bet and wants it off for the "next roll"... that would draw some attention. But, I guess that would be permitted at least once, until the Boxman can keep a straight face and tell the player, "Only this time, sir".

    If a Place Bet(s) is OFF for three rolls, we would ask the player if he wanted them working, if not, we would bring them down and place the stack of chips in the Come or apron service for removal to their chip rack. If the chips were not picked up right away in the Come... the dealer would declare, NO BET on the Come... and figures the player is having a bad day.
     
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