The Field

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by dpdiver2004, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. dpdiver2004, Dec 30, 2009

    dpdiver2004

    dpdiver2004 Member

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    I know the field is the table's biggest sucker bet, but does anyone else play the field. I remain disiplined when betting the field, but we all know that some rollers/tables can be field rollers. When I see a consecutive roll of non-fields from a field roller I don't mind chasing the field three time ($10, $20, then $40). I phycologically seperate my winnings from the field and use them to buy the 4 or 10 when I feel like a roller is going to roll for a while. Any thoughts?
     
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  2. lucky4688, Jan 4, 2010

    lucky4688

    lucky4688 Member

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    dpdiver,

    I know you were looking for a field better to reply, but i have some thoughts on your post. I'm glad you noticed that the field is kind of a sucker bet. I'm not going to go as far to say that it is the worst bet on the table, but its definately not a very good one. I personally dont think that even money wagers are very adventageous anyways. I have better luck with place bets myself. I was a field better for awhile but wasn't yielding the profits that i had hoped. I'm sure that you already know the field offers 20 ways to lose and 16 ways to win. Worse than a coin toss. Not a bet that i want to be making, especially given that you are only getting 1 to 1 payout. Sure the 2 and 12 payout double and maybe triple, but that doesn't change the fact that their are 4 more ways to lose the bet than their are to win. The idea of parlaying the field that you mentioned is kind of interesting. At first thought, parlaying the field seems kind of fool proof. But it really isn't. I have two friends who decided they were going to be strong field betters and if need be just parlay it. The only problem with that, is that eventually you will hit table max. Their is a reason why every table you see has a max limit. It is because of this reason exactly, everyone with an endless bankroll would just parlay until they eventually won then. Their logic was that a field number had to hit eventually. 10, 20, 40, 80, 160, 320, 640, 1280, 1560, 3120, table max. Using the common table max of 5,000, someone who is parlaying would have to hit a field number within ten rolls, otherwise they are out all that money. Because once you hit table max, even if you hit a field, you are still in the negative. Well, to make a short story even shorter, my two close friends watched 10 non fields in a row and lost all that money between the two of them. This is obviously just my opinion, but playing the field should be strictly limited to betting on hunches such as specific patters of field numbers being thrown or even a lot of non fields being thrown in a row. Depending on which minset you are using one might find it necessary to toss a field bet out their and try to catch a small win. Someone who bets the field in a consistent manner is going to go bust. I myself play with kind of an inconsistent method to when im going to place the 4 and 10. I normally place the inside and if the roll gets hot and im profiting them i'll jump on the 4 and 10. If using your winnings from the field as a decisive measure to whether or not you bet the 4 and 10, then thats great....At least you have a plan, not many people do. Good Luck
     
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  3. dpdiver2004, Jan 4, 2010

    dpdiver2004

    dpdiver2004 Member

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    Hi,

    Thanks for the post. I too have run the curse of the table max when playing the field. I have learned my lesson from those particular experiences and do not chase more than three times (10, 20, 40). From personal experience I notice that a better way to chase the field is with field rollers/tables. The human psychy rationalizes that when the previoud 5 rolls have not been a field, that one is due, but this can burn you bad. I too have seen those ten roll droughts.

    I too like to buy the 4 and 10. Ironically, these combinations follow the same droughts like the field. I was on a table this last weekend where I could not hit a 4 or 10 to save my life. In these times, you just have to find another table. Luckily I caught a table that served them up. I agree with your theory on craps...you can never be stuck to one strategy. Numbers seem to come in combinations, so it is better to recognize this and play accordingly.
     
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  4. goatcabin, Feb 8, 2010

    goatcabin

    goatcabin Member

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    If the casino pays triple on either the two or twelve, the Field is not that bad a bet; the house advantage in that case is 2.78%. That is lower than the HA on placing the 5/9 (4.0%). If they pay only double on 2 and 12, the HA is 5.56%, just like double-zero roulette. Also, if it's bad that the Field is "worse than a coin flip" (less than .5 probability of winning), then why buy the 4 or 10, which lose 66.7% of the time?

    BTW, buy bets can be quite a good deal if the casino collects the vig only on a win. Always check with the dealer about how they round the vig and whether they collect on both wins and losses.

    I suppose if there's a "worst bet" on the table it would be the Big 6/Big 8, which pay even money when you can get 7:6 by placing those numbers.
    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
     
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  5. The Midnight Skulker, Feb 10, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    My guess is that the Field's bad reputation derives from the fact that it is a one-roll bet, which means the house advantage acts on each and every roll. Compare that to Place 5/9, which resolves on average in 3.6 rolls. Put another way, compare $5 2x2/3x12 Field bets to $5 Place 5 bets over a theoretically distributed 36 rolls. The Field bettor is expected to be down $5 while the Place bettor is expected to be down only $2.
     
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  6. goatcabin, Feb 10, 2010

    goatcabin

    goatcabin Member

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    Remember Mason's term "commensurate risk"? For the same amount risked, the "good" Field bet has a lower expected loss. Your example involves $180 risked on the Field, just $50 on the place 5. The house advantage "works on each and every roll" only if the player bets it every roll. Craps players should be aware of these issues, of course.

    For a newbie, I find that the Field bet, if there is a triple payoff, is not a bad way to "get one's feet wet", because it's easy to understand and you can make it, or not, at any time. I have found that the two-part nature of the line bets, especially the come and don't come, is quite confusing, and place bets require dealer involvement and have to be made in certain amounts to pay correctly.

    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
     
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  7. The Midnight Skulker, Feb 11, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    And do you remember Mark Rafn's focus on normalizing bets that resolve at different rates by using loss/roll? My point was that traditional HA is not the be-all and end-all parameter to be considered when deciding where to put one's money.
    I agree that the Field, which wins or loses on the outcome of a single event (roll) and therefore operates like every other bet in the casino, is easy to understand. Unfortunately, many newbies never get past that and write off the better bets, the ones made on the outcome of a sequence of events, as too complicated -- to their detriment I feel. I think it's important for a recruit to have a positive experience, which doesn't necessarily require coming out ahead but does require some playing time if he/she loses. A 2x2/3x12 Field may not be a bad way to get one's feet wet, but I don't think your typical newbie's bankroll is going to last long enough there to provide the necessary incentive to return to the table.

    P.S. I should mention that Alan and I, whose name is Van by the way, are transplants from the apparently now defunct rec.gambling.craps Usenet newsgroup. Mason Clarke and Mark Rafn were active posters there during its heyday.
     
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  8. lucky4688, Feb 11, 2010

    lucky4688

    lucky4688 Member

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    The way i look at the field is this. Yeah its nice when the 2 pays double and 12 pays triple. But either way you look at it, their is 16 ways to win and 20 ways to lose. The field is not the worst bet on the table, but definately not a good bet. Someone betting the field is most likely going to get a 1 to 1 return and the bet is worse than a coin toss. Their are much more adventageous ways to risk money on the craps table. Most people may disagree, newbie or not, their is no excuse for making bets that have a significant house advantage just because it is an easy bet to make. Its not hard to pick up on place betting and pass line betting if you dont let prop betting and field betting distract you.

    I recommend staying away from the field.
     
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  9. goatcabin, Feb 11, 2010

    goatcabin

    goatcabin Member

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    Do you mean "refugees", Van? >:)

    re Newbies:
    I actually have a couple of "students" for whom I have conducted a couple of lessons, using my home layout. I started them out with the Field (paying, of course, triple on the 12), just to start them off easy. After they got used to making bets and getting paid off, I started teaching them the pass line. One of them was a quick study, and when we went to Cache Creek for his "baptism of fire", he even made a couple of come bets and a hard six. We mostly bet in parallel, but he got lucky on a hardway and came out a little better than I.

    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
     
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  10. goatcabin, Feb 11, 2010

    goatcabin

    goatcabin Member

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    All the bets except lay bets are "worse than a coin toss", in the sense that there is less than a 50% chance of winning. The place bets on 5 and 9 cost 4% and have only a 40% chance of winning, less than the 44.4% chance of winning the Field bet. Also, in analyzing any bet, you have to include all the outcomes. The double 2, triple 12 cannot be discounted; they are what make the bet not so bad.

    What do you consider "a significant house advantage", anyway? In any case, 4% is more than 2.8%, isn't it?

    BTW, I do not bet the Field, nor do I place the outside numbers. But the Field is not among the high-vig bets by any means.
    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
     
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