The Differances In Craps Dice

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by Pressit, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. Pressit, Dec 25, 2016

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    There are 19mm, and 3/4" dice. There are clear colors, opaque, sanded, frosted version, and there are different weights with the same size.

    Recently I purchase some used 3/4" Frontier casino dice off eBay. The 3/4", frosted purple dice were in pretty good condition, and after selecting 2 of the new new dice I noticed they felt differently from my usual 3/4", clear red, unused Wild Bills casino dice. They felt lighter, noticeably lighter. So I took a set of each to weigh, and the clear red dice weighed 19.3 grams, and the new 3/4" frosted dice, weighed in at 18.2 grams, a significant differance of 1.1 grams. I can not recall ever hearing or reading of a significant weight difference between two 3/4" dice. discussed. Also, how would this weight differance affect your toss and its outcome?
     
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    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  2. eagleeye2, Dec 25, 2016

    eagleeye2

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    Persist,

    3/4 Inch = 19.05 mm, essentially the same dimension.

    But there can be significant Differences in Dimentions & Weights from different manufacturers.

    Here's what I found on those Frontier Dice Post #9 on the ""Found 100 cancelled Casino Dice on eBay.""

    http://www.crapsforum.com/threads/found-100-cancelled-casino-dice-on-ebay.15657/

    Here's the results of analysis of four (two small & two large) dice taken from the 100 Dice (discussed in the previous post) at random:

    DIE #1 & #2 (small) Diameter MM
    Across Face 1 ~ 6 . 19.14 & 19.13 MM
    Across Face 2 ~ 5 . 19.14 & 19.12 MM Weight 9.117 grams & 8.904 grams
    Across Face 3 ~ 4 . 19.15 & 19.12 MM

    DIE #3 & #4 (large) Diameter MM
    Across Face 1 ~ 6 . 20.17 & 20.20 MM
    Across Face 2 ~ 5 . 20.17 & 20.21 MM Weight 9.839 grams & 9.843 grams
    Across Face 3 ~ 4 . 20.18 & 20.21 MM

    Close Dimensional Measurments across the three Axises, verify that the Dice are SQUARE!

    Dice Balancing Caliper Evaluation:

    Dark Red (smaller) Dice ~ Judged Highly Unbalanced, upon spin testing settled with the (1) Face in the UP Position every time. Typically rocked back & forth as the Spin rate slowed & stopped.

    Light Red (larger) Dice ~ Judged to be Fairly Balanced, in that any of the three faces could appear up upon spin testing. Typically NO rocking back & forth as the Spin rate slowed & stopped. If one established a count of the Up Faces, the (1) face may appear at a slightly higher rate, but as the other faces also stopped UP & there was none of the "Rocking Back & Forth Exhibited" I considered them Fairly Balanced.

    Comparison of Dimensions & weights for Dice # 1 & 2 and # 3 & 4 were within relatively small variance, indicating good manufacturing practices.

    It's considered AMAZING that DICE manufactured some Ten + Years ago exhibited the characteristics described above.

    The most AMAZING thing is that the ""Dark Red"" Dice from 10 Years ago exhibit the same Characteristic Unbalance as Do Dark Red Dice Of Today!

    IMHO, this is a Direct Result of the Manufacturing Process i.e. Obvious Differential Cooling; Producing Differential Density, in the Dice From that particular Manufacturer. Unless you are Brain Dead (like some on this thread), draw your own conclusion & act accordingly!

    eagleeye2
     
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  3. Onautopilot, Dec 25, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    Since you can not measure or weigh the ones being used in a live casino setting, I don't see how you could tell anything about those dice....as to exact size and weight.
     
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  4. Pressit, Dec 25, 2016

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    Those Frontier dice were .75", but I immediately knew they weighed less my other .75" casino dice, but was surprised to learn the difference was 1.1 grams.
     
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  5. eagleeye2, Dec 26, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Damn Onautopilot,

    You remain DUMB as a ROCK & BLIND as a BAT!

    I have a Metric Mike & a Metric Digital Scale, to measure & weigh the DICE with, yet you question basic ability to do so, DUH!

    I also have a Dice Balancing Caliper to Check them for BALANCE!

    Now as your ""Past Casino Employers"" all refuse to Use a DICE BALANCING CALIPER at the Tables, NO ONE will know if the Actual DICE that the Casino's put in play, at any Casino; are Balanced or NOT! Exactly what the Casino's WANT, DUH!

    Those SMART Craps Players, however, can take a bit of time, & with the technique outlined under the ""General Caps Discussion"" sub title ""ELEMENTARY METHOD TO ESTABLISH FAIR or BIASED DICE"" can establish if the DICE Currently in Play are FAIR or BIASED!

    Needless to say, SMART Craps players will evaluate a table prior to placing their $$$ on Bets of their choice!

    eagleeye2
     
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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
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  6. Pressit, Dec 26, 2016

    Pressit

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    If anyone has ever played on a dart team, they quickly realize once you get passed the old wooden bar darts, you move into a realm of darts that are weighted by fractions of grams, thicknesses, lengths, multiple feather combination to match your particular needs. Same goes for those who play pool. Once you find your combination and after practicing with it, you can tell immediately the noticeable change should you have to switch to another cue, or dart. The same with dice. I bought 15 sticks of Wild Bills .75" clear red dice, each die in each stick carries the same lot number, and the weight between any two of these 75 dies is no more than 1/10th of a gram. I have been using these Wild Bills for better than 2 years to practice with, so when I started using the Frontier dice the difference in handling and their reaction upon landing was very noticeable.

    What I am trying to find out is there a industry standard as to the weight of the dice used in casinos, particularly LV?
     
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  7. eagleeye2, Dec 26, 2016

    eagleeye2

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    Pressit,

    Were you using the smaller Dark Red Frontier Dice? If so, I found them to be Significantly Unbalanced & unsuited to use as Practice Dice.

    The Larger Light Red Dice were judged FAIR & suitable to use in practice. These Dice, however, measured a full MM in size over a 3/4 Inch Die, assuming that it measures the 19.05 mm equivalent to 3/4 inch.

    eagleeye2
     
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  8. superrick, Dec 26, 2016

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    Just pick them up, what is wrong with you. If you play all of the time it's not hard to do! Do you know that some casinos will switch in new dice while the shooter is shooting if they are on a good roll, so they can try to stop it? That's right there are some casinos craps crews that will start something on the table like not paying someone a bet and here comes the new dice in without anybody knowing what just happened.

    You should be proactive when you get on a craps table and look at the serial numbers on the dice every time you play craps! Those serial numbers can protect you just like they are there to protect the casinos.

    If you are the shooter you should be able to tell when they do their switch just by the feel of the dice and there edges.
     
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  9. TDVegas, Dec 26, 2016

    TDVegas

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    He specifically said as to exact size and weight, Rick.

    Not serial numbers or worn edges.
     
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  10. eagleeye2, Dec 26, 2016

    eagleeye2

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    superrick,

    That's a rather slow method, as with a full table it takes about an HOUR for the DICE to go around & get back to you. Average is thus 1/2 of that or about 1/2 Hour, way to long!

    Try the technique that I learned from another SHOOTER, (standing Next to me) as follows:

    CONSIDER THIS ~ Never too old to learn, several Months ago, I was playing & chatting with the player to my left, table was neutral, then a guy on the end got the dice, he was Setting Them, but had a rather wild throw. Suddenly he Had made two Points & I Stepped up my betting on him, as did the Player to my left.
    Luck, etc. & he held the dice for some time, making all Do Betters Good MONEY!

    Suddenly, the guy to my left taps me & says DAMN, they are going to CHANGE OUT the dice! I said to him what makes you think that & he replied:

    1) ""When you are on a HOT ROLL, don't watch the dice, watch the PIT BOSS""!

    2) ""I have been watching him closely & he has prepared a new sleeve of DICE!""

    3) Another several Rolls & Bingo 7~OUT.

    4) I NOW, I watched the PIT BOSS Slip those NEW DICE IN & GET THEM IN PLAY, without all but that guy next to me & ME catching the SWITCH! (Like You said Rick)

    5) Yes, after 35 Years of Shooting DICE, I just Learned what to Watch & When to Watch, thanks to that unknown Shooter to my Left!

    6) The next player 7'd out shortly, with ALL BUT that guy next to me & me having loaded up on a "HOT Table" which was Iced by the CASINO, with but few understanding why!

    Stick to this FORUM, We All Have Lots to Learn Yet...

    eagleeye2
     
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  11. superrick, Dec 26, 2016

    superrick

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    TDVegas, sorry to tell you this but anybody that plays craps all of the time should be able to tell you that the casino is using different size dice!

    Now, I would love to spend some more time with sevenout, and all of the dice he has. It was funny when he was showing his dice as he would pick them up he was telling me what size dice they were without looking at them.

    Casinos also have a little habit of using different size dice from day to day. Look the casinos are in businesses to make money and they will do anything to protect their bottom line. Which for some odd reason, you don't think so!

    The serial numbers if you look at them is for your protection. Now you and many others on this board may think that the dice they are using doesn't matter you are going to win by luck and that is it. Well if that was 100% true the casinos wouldn't switch out dice!

    If you would take the time to do some reading on casino management you would find out some of the things that do happen to craps players by the crew that is working the tables!

    There are a lot of management that are more superstitious than the players and when a table is dumping they will try anything to stop it!

    Here is my one question for you TDVegas are we ever going to see eye to eye on anything about casinos and the game of craps.
    Even when I say there are no what I would call real DI's as most think of them you say the only way someone could win at craps is by cheating or if they were a DI. Have you ever thought about what you have written in the past?
     
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  12. Edward-ky, Dec 26, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    There are tons of ways to win at caps that doesn't involve cheating DI or using the math or probabilities of the game. I use to see a guy spout off about the odds of a 4 rolling. He would lay the 4 and lost his ass. And being the ashore that I can be asked him if he wanted to lay the 4 again before I tossed. Know a guy who makes hop bets a lot and hits them quite frequently. He is a dumb as though doesn't know the math and probabilities of the game. Field bet isn't that another dumb bet 20 ways to lose 16 ways to win seen guys lose a lot but also win a lot as well. Math is great for figuring payouts and to argue on forum boards.
     
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  13. Edward-ky, Dec 26, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    Han solo says it best Don't ever tell me the odds!
     
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  14. eagleeye2, Dec 26, 2016

    eagleeye2

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    Edward-ky,

    You are 100% Correct, assuming one has ESP!

    For the rest of us, a bit of knowledge of the Game of Craps will have to do.

    eagleeye2
     
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  15. TDVegas, Dec 26, 2016

    TDVegas

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    What casino is not using standard 19mm (3/4") casino craps dice?....

    I would like to drive over there today and see for myself.

    My understanding is dice sizing is 16mm.....19mm....then 25mm. You're telling me there are casinos using 16mm craps dice? Where? 25mm? Where? This sizing discrepancy should be easily discernible for any player and questioned on the spot.

    I know there are other sizes but those are typically rounded edged type dice.

    What casino is using non standard dice (not 19mm) in Vegas. I'll take a look myself.

    The sizing of the dice doesn't protect the casino. They could just as easily lose with smaller dice or larger dice. Where are you getting it in your head that smaller or larger dice is an advantage for the casino over standard size dice?
    Variance and luck allow for a tiny percentage of certain lucky gamblers to be net ahead...see tomp's post on pass 2x, 6-8 (~5%) and hardways only players (0%)

    If you say you are a skilled shooter...that implies you think you are a dice influencer.

    In a negative expectation game such as craps...there is no method to gain an advantage beyond dice influence, bias dice, cheating. One can win with luck.

    What it is you claim you do....no one knows. You've never said it beyond your gamblers fallacy that past rolls indicate future outcomes. A false premise.

    Also your claim that when a number hasn't shown...the math says it has to "catch up". Also a false premise.

    Telling people "you have to know how to bet the game" is not an answer....it doesn't matter how you bet the game when EVERY bet is paid less than fair value. There has to be something else to gain an advantage.

    Such as...
    You know what numbers will appear before it happens.
    You can toss the dice to induce certain numbers or avoid certain numbers. A DI.
    Saying "watch what happens on the table"....means you can predict future results.

    Personally, I don't believe that crap. Maybe you'll demonstrate to some other non believer who doesn't think you know what's going to be rolled...that you do. Tell them what is going to happen. If it happens as you say...you've got a believer.

    Until then...nyet
     
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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  16. superrick, Dec 26, 2016

    superrick

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    Look, just ask seven out about the dice that use around the country! You can have any option you want to I know if I say red you will say it's blue!
     
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  17. James Hall, Dec 26, 2016

    James Hall

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    Eagleeye2
    a great gambler once said , "GAMBLING IS , IN AND OF ITSELF AN EFFORT TO PREDICT THE FUTURE ,
    THE BEST WAY TO PREDICT THE FUTURE IS TO CREATE IT , TO WIN YOU MUST PREDICT WITH GREAT FREQUENCY
    AND PLACE THE BETS , APPROPRIATE"
     
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  18. HornHiYo, Dec 26, 2016

    HornHiYo

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    I have run across different size dice from one casino to the next. I don't keep track of them but at least two of the sizes you mentioned can be found among many casinos including those in Nevada.
    Color and size varies and so does random results.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  19. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

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    Haven't been to Tunics in over a year, but Road house uses the biggest Blue Dice that I have ever seen!

    They have those funny looking spongy layouts too! I actually played once At Fitzgerald's, & their tables were pretty decent!

    Hollywood Casino is the Darkest friggin Casino that I have ever played in. You can barely see the darn dice, because its so dark in there!
     
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  20. Pressit, Dec 27, 2016

    Pressit

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    My original casino dice, Wild Bills, clear red are 3/4". The new Frontier are 3/4", the only difference is the color, finish, and weight.
     
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