The Dice Doctor

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by KokomoJoe4, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. KokomoJoe4, Nov 16, 2013

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    2,652
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    Having seen reference to Grafstein’s The Dice Doctor book from Dragline, Heavy and at least a few others, I checked in with Amazon.

    This guy grew up with and lived craps for sixty years, in many capacities above player, including owner of floating games. I’m only starting my second time through the book so I’m sure there is a lot still to be learned, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that my own method, learned through the school of hard knocks, appears to be very close to what Sam advises as the best way to go for the Right player. Makes me feel half smart.

    He tells the reader to find out for yourself which way you like to play, then gives great advise on management, bankroll and progressive betting.

    It is obvious that he personally prefers the Dark Side, with small line bet(s) and BIG odds. Again this doesn’t surprise – it is probably the best bet on the table. But he does not insist you play this way – he realizes it is your game and the other way can be almost as good.

    For my Do style, which he claims to use with some decent success, his advice on the come-out is exactly as I have spouted – he calls the parlay “the best bet on the table” : - ) He is NOT as impressed with taking big odds as I, nor is he as aggressive in his progression as I like to play. He is more in tune with a steady progression, which obviously protects what you have managed to win. I prefer a bit more aggression than he advises because it provides a shot at a BIG win.

    Sam insists that Do players qualify each and every shooter - probably good advice but I don't have time for that - only when things are going badly. He also believes that place bets are for dreamers!!! Sam shows why the Come is not as good as the Pass, something I had known but not realized quite the way he describes. Then Sam professes a replacement for the Come bet - a Converted Come Bet, which is a PLACE bet - lolol.

    This is only the 3rd book on craps I have read, and it has prompted me to get one or two others.
     
    #1
  2. Dragline, Nov 25, 2013

    Dragline

    Dragline Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    2
    Best one I've ever read -- and I've read a lot.
     
    #2
  3. $nakeEye$, Nov 26, 2013

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    594
    KokomoJoe -

    I have read the ' DiceDoctor ' also -

    a few things one must bear in mind -

    1. His book was published before the advent of ' dice control ' as we know today -

    which is always moving ' forward ' -

    2. Sam NEVER shot the dice - would NOT touch them puppies -

    HE always relied on OTHERS and the DICE to dictate his style / method of betting !

    And , YES , HE was a CHARACTER , according to those who knew him -

    I can only imagine , ........... !

    $...eE..$
     
    #3

  4. boner

    boner Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasted a couple bucks on that rot. 'Wait until a shooter makes a pass before betting on him.' blah blah blah. Dice have no memory. My best advice is: avoid craps tables where you never win, they may be rigged. !! don't laugh.
     
    #4

  5. Heavy

    Heavy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Time to put down the bong, my friend. You are stupid enough already.
     
    #5
  6. KokomoJoe4, Dec 10, 2013

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    2,652
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    Hardon,

    Any secondary advice?

    I have found this book as filled with experience as one can get. The guy appears to have been quite the character, yet he has obviously forgotten more about the game than both you and I know.
     
    #6
  7. $nakeEye$, Dec 10, 2013

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    594
    KokomoJoe4 -

    Apparently ' Hardon ' shot his load and is now a ' memory ' -

    Gone - but not forgotten !

    Sam is / was THE man in his hey-day -

    Hardon - disregard ALL advice that is published -

    Bet BIG BUCK$ on the " Shake, Rattle and Rollers " -

    You will do just as the odds predict -

    YOU will LOSE !

    $...eE..$

     
    #7
  8. $nakeEye$, Dec 10, 2013

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    594
    COULD THIS POSTER BE " HARDEIGHT " RE-INCARNATED -

    Magnets in the table ?

    How soon WE forget -

    DeMango's MOST favorite adversary !

    Aside from ME !

    $...eE..$

     
    #8
  9. Frank Scoblete, Dec 10, 2013

    Frank Scoblete

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    5
    I played with Sam "The Dice Doctor" Grafstein in the early 1990's. From reading his excellent book you would think he'd be a gruff character. The guy was a hell of a nice man and he had a hell of a lot of respect for the Captain. He'll be in a new book I'm writing about my career as a dice controller. That book won't be coming out until 2015. I think his son has taken on the Dice Doctor title.

    Frank Scoblete, author of "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic" http://tinyurl.com/kvux22v
     
    #9
  10. Dragline, Dec 10, 2013

    Dragline

    Dragline Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    2
    That would be interesting.

    Any chance your current new book will be released in electronic format?
     
    #10
  11. Frank Scoblete, Dec 10, 2013

    Frank Scoblete

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    5
    My new book "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic" will be on Kindle sometime in January. All my upcoming books will as well.
     
    #11
  12. KokomoJoe4, Dec 11, 2013

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    2,652
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    Frank,

    As I recall from your Beat the Craps out of the Casino, you are a pretty fair card counter. But now with "million card shoes", (and who's still counting?), what would you say is more difficult to do for financial prosperity, influence dem bones or count dem cards? Curious, as one who can do neither.
     
    #12
  13. $nakeEye$, Dec 11, 2013

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    594
    Frank -

    There is a poster who is either on MP's or Heavy's board who has the handle ' The Dice Doctor ' -

    I am certain either Heavy or MP would NOT allow Sam's ' Nick Name / Other persona ' to be used in vain without due investigation -

    Could THIS be Sam's Son ? -

    Be it noted - I did NOT refer to HIM as the ' Son of Sam ' !

    $...eE..$

     
    #13
  14. Frank Scoblete, Dec 11, 2013

    Frank Scoblete

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    5
    KokomoJoe4: Even with eight decks card counting is easier than dice control; in fact, it is probably much easier. The count I recommend to players who are new to card counting or have had trouble with the traditional counts is Speed Count from my book (yes, yes, I always plug my books) "Beat Blackjack Now." I also have a complete discussion of the Hi-Lo count in that book as well since this is a stronger count and also not that difficult to learn.

    Dice Control takes almost daily practice and is tougher to do in a casino. However, if you get good at it, you can make some decent money. From my observations too many dice controllers can't shake their inner gambler and continue to make bets they can't overcome and are therefore long-term losers. I have even seen the bad betting advice from some self-styled dice gurus who should know better. I've also seen idiotic trend betting systems from these same dice gurus too. So, yes, dice control is the tougher dragon to slay.

    SnakeEyes: There is no doubt that the original Sam Grafstein is not the guy currently using that monika but the new one is riding on the name and the book. I am guessing son or nephew. Never met this new Sam Grafstein.

    Good news to everyone (well, at least to me): My new book "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic" is now available in Kindle at Amazon.com. Here are the links:

    Amazon.com at http://tinyurl.com/kvux22v
    (Kindle http://tinyurl.com/pfnqhph.)
     
    #14
  15. johnsnow, May 7, 2014

    johnsnow

    johnsnow Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey Frank,

    I believe the guy your talking about has a blog on Grafstien where he goes into detail on the book and his uncle's writing's...I think it mentions some of your works on there as well.

    Good blog - can't remember if its samgrafstein.com or thedicedoctor.com but one of those names...
     
    #15
  16. $nakeEye$, May 7, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    594
    Frank -

    I met this fellow a few months ago - no relation to Sam - just a dedicated fan who espouses on Sam's work and his book -

    He even has a web-site about Sam's Book - http://www.dicedoctor.wordpress.com - OR - http://dicedoctor.info/ pretty impressive , -

    If I must say so myself !

    $...eE..$
     
    #16
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  17. johnsnow, May 9, 2014

    johnsnow

    johnsnow Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey $nakeEyes$,

    Thanks for the links, I believe he is not related to Grafstien but just a blogger who is writing on his book. I didn't see him selling anything other than Grafstein's original work but sounds like he does alright playing that system.

    Have you played that style? Would you recommend that particular book?
     
    #17
  18. $nakeEye$, May 9, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    594
    johnsnow -

    I have shot dice with the author of the web-site dedicated to Sam Grafstien's book " The Dice Doctor " - and will say that he is a MOST dedicated follower of Sam's dice philophosy -

    Personally, I utilize a number of Sam's ' betting plays ' as he explains so in depth in his book -

    Sam's ' shooter qualification criteria ' is second to none - excepting- and not including the ' Captain's 5-count ' -

    Sam ' NEVER ' shot the dice himself - he states his reasons early in his book why he elects not to -

    I would definitely recommend this book to any and all who are serious about the game of craps -

    This is by far, one of the better and more insightful books on craps that I have ever purchased and read -

    AND, my hat is off , to " Steve " for his dedication to bring the " theDiceDoctor " book to life !

    You are correct - NO relation - just a believer ! -

    $...eE..$
     
    #18
    yacraps likes this.
  19. tercol58, Oct 18, 2017

    tercol58

    tercol58 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    45
    Gender:
    Male
    I started reading this book again a day or so ago it is a great book.
    I play the game off and on and have never yet got the basics in my head just like reading his book I jump around to what I like but I do think every time I revisit the craps table and his book this guy real knows what his talking about I have had good results with everything he tells you to do but I’m too weak to stick with it
     
    #19
    yacraps likes this.
  20. KokomoJoe4, Oct 18, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    2,652
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    Sam comes across as a gruff guy who has played AND run a lot of craps games. It is obvious he has as much/more experience with the game than just about anyone on the face of the earth.

    The thing that I like best about him is that he tells us he does NOT want to tell us how to bet/play the game. He definitely has a good idea as to what type of play is the "best", but he is smart enough to know and state that, given the randomness of the dice results, there will be plenty of times that following his "best" play, you will be a loser.

    He obviously does not like the Do bettor out on too many numbers at one time, since all are susceptible to the seven. He recommends only single odds max precisely because the Do bettor is always the underdog.

    Progressions while winning are the key to success at craps according to Sam. Some do not agree with this, but I certainly do.

    BTW, Sam's favorite play is the Don't with Big odds, and he is insistent on building in indicators into your play that do a lot more than indicate - they require that you pull bets down when certain numbers show. This gives a chance to avoid some big losses.
     
    #20
    rongarm10 and yacraps like this.