THANKS

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by peteydogg, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. peteydogg, Dec 10, 2011

    peteydogg

    peteydogg Member

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    Thanks to all of you who contributed to this discussion. Very informational and gave me a better idea of what I was asking. As a beginner and awaiting the new HorseShoe Casino to open in Cleveland, (March 2012) I was wondering what the best way to prepare for my journey. Any "Must Read" books for the beginner you can suggest? I also am in the process in building a practice table. I am pretty handy with wood and I will be posting pics as the project unfolds but am uncertain as to just building a shooting station or a full table. I would want to have the effect of the real enviroment as to dimensions, and table bounce etc.. Any suggestions on what kind of materials to use in this project would be helpful.
     
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  2. kaysirtap, Dec 10, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    Personally, I would start out by learning what all of the bets are... how they win/lose and what their relative house edges are. House edge does not need to drive your betting style, but it's good to know what you're up against when you make certain bets.

    Then, get a feel for, or ask people about table etiquette. There are things to know about both players and dealers when it comes to this. Midnight Skulker has an interesting article about interacting with dealers: http://midnightskulker.casinocitytimes.com/article/have-you-made-a-friend-at-the-craps-table-today?-5992 I have always wanted to be in front of a virgin craps market and see if they naturally come up with the same superstitions veterans have.

    Learn some betting strategies. You don't have to play the strategy with the lowest house edge. No betting strategy is going to allow you to overcome the house edge, but you may find yourself enjoying one style of play over another.

    After the previous step, beware of Gambler's Fallacy and other illogical conclusions. Some players get so deep into their betting strategies and methods that they start believing things that aren't true. If you hear yourself saying, "After [this], [another thing] is more likely to happen", then it's too late for you :)

    Most importantly, you need to enjoy yourself when you play. Get to know the dealers, talk with some other players... whatever helps you enjoy your time at the craps table.
     
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  3. basicstrategy777, Dec 10, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    Kay gave you excelllent advice.

    I would focus on making sure you bet in relation to your buy in......have a plan on how you are going to play going in......make a few rules and stick to them......bet on bird balls and atomic craps if you haven't seen them come up in a long while ( they're due ).

    Good luck.

    777
     
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  4. peteydogg, Dec 10, 2011

    peteydogg

    peteydogg Member

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    I take it bird balls are 2 craps?
     
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  5. kaysirtap, Dec 10, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    Yes, but I believe he was making a joke about it being "due".
     
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  6. basicstrategy777, Dec 10, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    2 bad boys from Illinois.

    777
     
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  7. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Dec 11, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Practice tables are just that for practice. Best way to get the real feel is on a actual table in a live casino environment. Now there are several websites that sell used table and new tables. Depending on your betting habits buying your own actual table is a better idea than it sounds at first. I have never really trusted home build practice rigs. So you can buy a used table for 2500 or practice at a casino and loose 2500. At least this way you have daily entertainment and the table can be sold for a slight hit but overall its a solid investment.


    http://usagamingsupply.com/crapstables.shtml
     
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  8. peteydogg, Dec 11, 2011

    peteydogg

    peteydogg Member

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    Is the a set ratio you should use? Presque Isle in erie has 10$ tables for their lowest. I think I read somewhere where your bankroll should be 10 times the amount of the minimum bet.
     
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  9. basicstrategy777, Dec 11, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    The box has in front of him 250,000......you have 200 bucks. Who will win that fight.

    "It all starts with money and without the proper amount of money you are at a distinct disadvantage. How many numbers you cover....the amount of odds you take....your bet size....should all be proportional to your session stake.

    The figure you see you see most is 10 %. E.G. Buy in is 200 dollars means you can dedicate about 20 dollars per shooter.....5 PL, 5 odds, place 6 and 8 for 6 each.......22 inside....5 DC bets.....etc,etc.

    You MUST be properly capitalized to play. It is the beginning of everything and without it you cannot compete. Without proper bankroll you will not play confidently, you will play scared, you will not make the proper bets; it will affect your play. Bankroll determines your loss limits, it determines your win goals, it tells you how big your bets should be, it tells you what value table you should play at. Bankroll will determine to a large extent your chance of meeting your win goal. It ALL starts with bankroll.

    Only 2.17 percent of shooters will have tosses of 20 or more; if you play long enough for 30 shooters to roll the dice you have a 48.28 percent chance of a shooter rolling the dice at least 20 tosses."

    Conservation of money should be your primary objective. You will go a long way to doing that by betting small amounts initially and being patient ( qualifying the shooter)...you must be there when the 'hot" roll developes. You won't be there if you tap out quickly.

    If possible, hang around a craps table and watch play. You will develope ideas after watching a while.

    Good luck.


    777
     
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  10. eagledice, Dec 11, 2011

    eagledice

    eagledice Member

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    Peteydogg

    G7S is correct that a table is better than a practice rig. The only downfall is that a lot of us don't have the room for a lifesize table.
    I have tried and tried to get my wife to move the dining room set to the basement but that is a loosing argument.

    If a table is not workable, the next best thing is a tossing station, a receiving station and a table between the 2 with a practice craps cloth on it. I use that and in my basement I am able to set up a SL1, SR1 shooting position. It works for me and the Mrs.


    EagleDice
     
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  11. peteydogg, Dec 11, 2011

    peteydogg

    peteydogg Member

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    Thanks for the post ED. Yes I already have some materials I have the felt and ordered the diamond back from Ebay. I am think of a 4 x 4 landing area with a curved backstop.
    I was also thinking about the distance from where you are throwing to the landing area. I would think if you were looking at the floor while throwing this would affect your arc
    and subsequently your final throw. I consider myself adequatley proficient at woodworking but dont have the funds to do it right. My cousin is a cabinet maker so I plan on confferring with him also.
    siik2nr had a nice video although it is kind of dark on my puter. I think he had 24 rolls before he 7nd out with the 4/2 hard set. Could have made some money on that roll!
    Anyway all you guys are great on here. I think if I follow all of the old timers advice and also the new and upcoming I really feel I can be very successful at this game. Will keep all informed as I build this thing and post
    some pics also. thanks again.
    TS

    By the way where in Ohio are you ED?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68pu1F0D_9g
     
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  12. $nakeEye$, Dec 11, 2011

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    My situation is similar to EagleDice's - no room for a table or a full size permanent set-up -

    I have an area in an upstairs vacant bedroom ( all the kids are out and on their own ) where between two closets I have a 30" wide X 42" long receiving station-

    This has a 48" long diamond rubber pyramids placed against the back and side walls - to simulate the back flat and curved back craps table wall -

    My original breakdown receiving station - 24"W x 18" deep x 12" high - is on a folding table - which is now my throwing station -

    Both are approx. 28" high from floor to the tables bottom -

    This can be moved to simulate a 12' table , a 14' table or anything in between -

    Linda also uses it from a SR1 position to practice her toss -

    Also, as the original receiving station is break down - we take that with us for overnight stays in AC -

    That way we can get some practice time in in our hotel / motel room !

    " A guy has to do what a guy has to do " !
     
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  13. epenak, Dec 12, 2011

    epenak

    epenak Member

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    There are bunches of books about craps gambling that have are targeted at introducing craps. Basicstrategy777 says he has one. I haven't read it but send him a PM and see if he'll make you a deal.

    For general gambling strategy and money management, I like John Patrick's Craps and John Patrick's Advanced Craps. These two gems were written before dice influencing became the latest craze. If you are gonna go bet on random rolls, this is pure gold. Sage advice is here on how to aggress and regress with your bets.

    Dice Control for Casino Craps. Gambling Disciples of God. by Yuri Kononenko. He claims to have written the first book on dice influencing. I would start down that path (DI) with this book. Some people discount his advice cuz he advocated the straight out position. Ignore them. Find this book and read it.

    Golden Touch Dice Control Revolution! How to Win at Craps Using a Controlled Dice Throw!, by Frank Scoblete and Dominator. This has pictures of lots of grips. You have to wade through a lot of product positioning. You've probably mastered that skill by now.

    The Mad Professor's Crapshooting Bible. By Tino Gambino. There are too many nuggets in this book to describe. If you are building a craps library, get this book. Some of this material is available at the Dice Institute web site, but I like to curl up at night with the wife, the cat, the dog (hey, its cold out there) and this book.

    Wong on Dice. By Stanford Wong. This is really a personal journey story. If I purchased this book based on reviews of it online, I would not have purchased it. I put those opinions aside and bought it because I respect Wong's work with BJ. I am so glad I did. This is well written and has some numbers as well. I go back to this one more than I expected. There are some nice tips about DI practice that I like because they are not coming from someone who is in the coaching game. This is a good source of numbers for quoting to other people. :)

    Many of these books are available used at good discounts. Gambling authors don't make money if you buy from the publisher or Amazon. The author usually only gets free copies of their books that they in turn can sell to you. They only make money when they sell a book directly.

    Read a book. Go to the casino. Gamble with a small bankroll. Go home and reflect on what you did. Learn from it. Repeat this over and over. In between steps, talk to other gamblers. People will give you free advice. It is free for a reason.

    If you run into something to read, let me know. I'll read anything!
     
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  14. epenak, Dec 12, 2011

    epenak

    epenak Member

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    Here's my free advice on this subject: don't build or buy a table. You don't know what your local casino craps table is gonna have for a surface. That is the one you want to emulate. So, wait. What if you built a table and it wasn't anything like the local table?

    Until then, start your practice sessions on your bed. You need to learn to control dice while they are in the air. The bed is a perfect tool for that. You want to make the bed first, though. :)


    Then, go to YouTube and check out the practice rigs. That will give you some ideas about what other folks are doing. You can make a cardboard box for some practice rigs. Then go from there.

    Ironwig, who is a member here has posted some neat videos to study.

    My free advice ....
     
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  15. eagledice, Dec 12, 2011

    eagledice

    eagledice Member

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    To take Ironwig's advise a bit farther.

    One method of practice that I picked up from "Alley-Oop" a member from the Dice Institute that he used to do in Las Vegas. He would take out one of the dresser drawers and place it on the hotel bed. That gave him a flat surface, a target zone and a somewhat back wall. Then He would use one of the desk chairs, turn it around so that the back faced him and used phone books to get the proper table height ( 28inches ). He used to toss form SL1 so the distance of around 7 foot worked for him.

    So basically you are standing against a chair, reaching down and launching from the chair seat into the dresser drawer. Like he said it works great in Vegas although he received some strange looks form the maid.

    Ya its kinda funky but it will save you some bucks and like Ironwig says, we do not know what type of surface will be available when the casino opens and you hate to spend dollars on the wrong table surface.

    Just a thought........

    EagleDice
     
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  16. $nakeEye$, Dec 12, 2011

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    peteydogg -

    Add to the epenak list of must reads - Get the Edge at Craps by SharpShooter -

    Disregard the advice given you about not building your own throwing and/or receiving station -

    Go for it, build it and practice, practice, practice and then practice some more on it -

    You can get some pretty worthwhile ideas on building a variety of stations by checking out the following site(s) :

    www.accucraps.com www.spinettis.com

    AND - do yourself a favor - stay away from the casinos until you have practiced at home - take the advice of G7 - save the $2500 you will lose in a casino environment - and apply that loss to a practice rig or an actual table !
     
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  17. epenak, Dec 13, 2011

    epenak

    epenak Member

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    You misrepresented what I said. I suggested that peteydog not build a TABLE. I then suggested that he go online and look for ideas for building a practice rig. And the letters are capitalized for emphasis, only.
     
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  18. kaysirtap, Dec 13, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    I have no opinion about what anyone should or shouldn't build for DI practicing... but I will say that having a craps table in your own home (if you can afford the physical space) could be a lot of fun for you and any guests you entertain. Some people have pool tables, so why not a craps table? And if you REALLY want to entertain your guests, you could learn some basics of how to deal the game.
     
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  19. peteydogg, Dec 13, 2011

    peteydogg

    peteydogg Member

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    Thanks SE, I like your positive attitude. As I stated before I am pretty handy with wood. Just got my Pyramid bumper and will start laying out the thing today. I have a little story to tell as to why I am so enthused about playing craps.
    which I will post in a new thread because it will be kind of long. Any way thanks for the books info I will definatley start lookinmg and aquiring them.
     
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  20. peteydogg, Dec 13, 2011

    peteydogg

    peteydogg Member

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    And this is my intention. I would like to have something as close to possible to perfecting my set , stance and delivery. I also want to master how bets are palced and how they are paid out so I dont get ripped off by some green dealer. I can also show family and friends how DI is palpatible. Maybe even posibly leading to getting a team together. The Cleveland casino is due to open in March of 2012 and I plan to be READY! I will be posting a thread as to why I am in this fervor about learning and playing craps and WINNING!
     
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