Taking what the Dice Give You

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by KokomoJoe4, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. gargoil, Nov 17, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    Are you kidding me? I haven't started the insults yet. That was an appetizer. See when I go after internet trolls, I go all in.
     
    #81
  2. gargoil, Nov 17, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    Hey James, you think Parker can let me borrow his plane the next time he is in Vegas? I have a craps table I just bought and need to get it home. It's too big for the teleport pod.
     
    #82
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  3. von duck, Nov 17, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    No, he's seeing the "Lite" and quite a few of them.:)
     
    #83
  4. gargoil, Nov 18, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    SIR, I resent that statement. I am an equal opportunity insulter. I insult men, women, cattle and anything else I want. I graduated top of my class from $nakeye$ sharm school with no honors.

    Our moto at the school was "Drink Jack, Post Crap".
     
    #84
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  5. Pressit, Nov 18, 2017

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    Excellent idea, one of the best you have come up with, but let me throw in a small twist.

    Below please find 2 pictures of Heavy which were found on the internet using Google.

    The first pics shows the 6 of the most common dice sets used by DI, and alike, who believe these sets are more likely to produce a a certain set of numbers, as illustrated in pic 2 under all under perfect conditions.

    image.jpeg

    image.jpeg

    All craps table employed by casinos all differ in design, construction and the materials used. I think we can all agree on that.

    So here is the twist which neither favors you, nor James, but does make for a more level playing field.

    TDV picks the casino, craps table. James must announce before this challenge begin the one and only dice set he will be allowed to use. Since all craps tables are different, James is allowed 5 non-counting tosses to get an idea what this 1 dice sets produces, which may easily end up with 5 separate numbers. After the 5 non-counting tosses, James pick his 3 place numbers, TDV is awarded the other remaining 3 place numbers. Then the challenge begins. Other rules apply as previously agreed.
     
    #85
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  6. von duck, Nov 18, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    I'll take 6 8 and 9, TD can have the other 3, I'll bet I get more hits.
     
    #86
  7. TDVegas, Nov 18, 2017

    TDVegas

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    This is a more simplistic approach...but ok.

    If we are simply recording "hits"....as long as the numbers left to me are an exact opposite of his, yes, this is fine.
    He picks the 4...I get 10
    He picks the 9...I get 5
    He picks the 6...I get 8

    He can change his pick AT ANY TIME (Based on "take what the dice are giving"). I will simply get the opposite....as in "bet what the dice aren't giving me". James' earlier comments suggested he liked both plays at the same time...oh no, no. None of that crapola.

    He can pick table, bubble, he can shoot, he can pick another to shoot. He controls the dice for all rolls. He can pick color dice, player location, he can change dice set all he wants. Short tosses are negated. I place ZERO restrictions on his shooting beyond standard craps rules.

    The only thing he cannot do is pick, say, the 6-8-9. He must leave the "sister" number to me. As stated, if he wants to change his selection he may. As always, any changes are stated before a roll.

    He may also choose the 11....I get 3
    Or 12...I get 2
    Or vice versa.

    He may also call "off or on" on any number. (i.e., just have the 8 on. My 6 is only on)

    He gets unlimited practice tosses prior to start.

    All rules are laid out PRIOR to start. Please offer counter points.

    Say 4 sets....144 rolls?
    His hits are record +1....my hits are recorded as +1.

    A practice table works fine. I hear there is one floating around Vegas;)
     
    #87
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
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  8. basicstrategy777, Nov 18, 2017

    basicstrategy777

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    “It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.”


    777
     
    #88
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  9. von duck, Nov 18, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Didn't say it was a lock, said I would bet, BUDDA. I knew they were talking "sister" numbers, but it wasn't stipulated in the post I responded to. And, since it was TD, I was jockey'n for position. All is fair.:)
     
    #89
  10. betwthelines, Nov 18, 2017

    betwthelines

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    i do realize that this is all in fun but you know it, i know it, pressit knows it, the american peoples know it, hell, even the baron knows it that the rodeo cowboy will never take you up onnit.

    he CLAIMS that he would be at an advantage in these essentially coin flip bets against TDVs monkey tosses...and while in his own convoluted and delusional way he denies that he is a gambler (why it is skill of course), what intelligent gamble er craftsman turns down propositions where they have an advantage?

    his refusals may or may not be because deep down he lacks actual confidence in his skills but at a very minimum he opens himself up to rational speculation that in fact he does lack such confidence.

    yes, it is fun though...and that alone makes your facetious, satirical postings worthwhile.

    tom p

    "fun is good"
    --trademark of the st paul saints
     
    #90
  11. KokomoJoe4, Nov 18, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Small and possibly unimportant point, but the terms "straight sixes" and "parallel sixes" do not differenciate nor properly describe the positional arrangement of the sixes.

    Both terms could, can and do correctly describe BOTH arrangements, so better nomenclature is needed.

    While there can be no visual misunderstanding of the crossed sixes sitting at right angles to one another, the terms "vertical sixes" and "horizontal sixes" leave nothing to be misunderstood when discussing axial arrangements.
     
    #91
  12. Pressit, Nov 18, 2017

    Pressit

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    This is Heavy’s sets from long ago, to use as an illustration . I particularly don’t use these sets as my set come from Linaway.
     
    #92
  13. Pressit, Nov 18, 2017

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    TDV

    Couldn’t reply directly to your reply kept receiving crapsforum host error.


    James may receive up to 5 non-counting/practice tosses before the challenge begins, but may be satisfied with just 3 tosses. The practice tosses, up to 5 of them, are only so James can get a feel for a unfamiliar table and it’s conditions, as you know table conditions vary from table to table, even within the same casino. So if I were James I would want to get a feel for the table before entering into any challenge, especially if that challenge included $$$. However James may decide he doesn't any stinking practice tosses, and let’s get on with it. Point for James.

    James should know, and understand whatever dice set he picks (can be any set of is choosing), he is stuck with that dice set, there is no changing it to some other dice set after he announces the set he intends to use, and to put more pressure on James the dice set has to be made know before approaching the table. Point for TDV.

    After James picks his dice set, he is going to know pretty fast if the dice set he choose is producing the desired numbers normally associated with that particular set, or will he see other numbers. After those non-counting tosses are completed, no more than 5 tosses. James announces the 3 place numbers of his choosing, you, TDV, are then left with the remaining 3 place numbers, which may or may not be a sister number.

    Never gave much thought to crap numbers, but if James want to use crap numbers as part of his 3 numbers set, more power to him, just wouldn’t be my first choice. All the other nuances are between you and James, whatever happens after that, happens.



     
    #93
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
  14. von duck, Nov 18, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    I get them too, when I try to reply to the "clan".
     
    #94
  15. KokomoJoe4, Nov 18, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

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    Assuming fair and balanced dice, there is a 1 in 6 chance of correctly calling the outcome of each die.

    There is a 1 in 11 chance of correctly calling the summed outcome, and anywhere from a 2.8% to a 16.7% of seeing any specific number on every roll of the dice.

    Except for the hop bets, the game is not designed to require the number being bet to show in one roll.

    Since only 16.7% of outcomes spell the end of the most typical bets, the other 83.3% of all possible results can be covered by placing as few as four wagers. Make it five wagers if you prefer to cover them all and "win" on every roll of the dice.

    Starting with given that the player can in fact win on every roll of the dice, the problem then becomes one of managing bet size on the various wagers in such a way that makes the play profitable. It would kind of suck to "win" on every roll of the dice, only to go home a loser.

    Because most of us do not know what is going to roll on individual rolls, the push for profit must rely on :eek: luck :eek: (sorry JH), at least at the start of the process.

    If you allow for the possibility that your "recently won money" can be used to constantly modify various bet sizes in order to hedge bets as well as they can be hedged, then there will be a certain point of profit where all active bets are covered, and the session can then end as a winner even with the loss of all active wagers, except the one that wins on this final roll.

    Obviously any session where you are ahead can be stopped before you slide into the red. It's just that I am intrigued by the thought of a "winner" on every roll, and this has prompted me to get out a notebook and start making some wagers on paper.

    But first into the weight room, where I'll shoot and record maybe 144 rolls out of the vertical sixes while doing a session on the delts.

    I'll get back to you on how the winner on every roll actually worked out. :rolleyes:
     
    #95
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  16. James Hall, Nov 18, 2017

    James Hall

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    A great many gamblers are very superstitious people
    Many rely on , "LUCK" as tho it could have some effect on the outcome of the game
    I wish there was a better term than luck to describe an unintended or unexpected result
    to replace the term
     
    #96
  17. KokomoJoe4, Nov 18, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

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    How is one's "skill" at the game of benefit to him/her when he/she is NOT shooting?
     
    #97
  18. Onautopilot, Nov 18, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    Luck does not effect the outcome.....it describes the outcome as relates to the player's choice of bets....he won the bet, and describes that event as being "lucky", he loses the bet, and describes that event as being "unlucky".

    When you say luck does not exist, you are misinterpreting what luck really means......it is merely a description of a random event outcome, as relates to the player in this case.
     
    #98
  19. James Hall, Nov 18, 2017

    James Hall

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    If he is not shooting his skill is of NO benefit and is exactly why I never bet on other players
    Over the years I have heard skilled players complain , about how they lose waiting for the dice to come back around
    They say , "I win some money on my throw then I lose it back plus all or part of my bankroll betting on the 12 or 14 other players
    so I tell those guys "don't bet on other players it is too expensive"
    They attribute those losses to , "staying on the table too long"
    Once many of these guys started betting only when they are shooting , they were amazed at the results
    The skilled player is going to be one of 12 or 14 players on the table and generally the only one with training / skill
    I will not risk money on those folks
    Believe me , when I say or post things like that I get a lot of flack , people on this board that these kind of statements mean
    I am arrogant and have an ego
    by not betting on all these players , "THE WORST CASE SCENARIO IS I CUT MY LOSSES"
    A big part of winning is knowing how to cut losses
    It is said that the five count can eliminate 30% of the bad shooters or some such number
    I eliminate them all
    I don't bet on other players
     
    #99
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  20. James Hall, Nov 18, 2017

    James Hall

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    one definition of luck is ACCIDENT another unexpected result
     
    #100