Take, Pay... Place the key to success

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by SevenOut, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. SevenOut, Jan 9, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Dice Influencing is an idea. A number of select individuals have taken a pair of dice, rotated them to make some sense of possible outcomes by careful execution of a toss across the green felt.

    ...and charge for this 'opportunity'.

    The secret to playing successful Craps is not that complicated. The Craps Dealer's Manual.

    Take, Pay, Place.

    It is orderly.
    You lose a wager, the Dealer TAKES.
    You win a wager, the Dealer PAYS.
    You make a wager, or an additional wager, or move a wager, increase a wager, decrease a wager- the Dealer PLACES.

    Why is Dice Control, aka Dice Setting and other terms of delivering the pair of pre orientated dice... so... COMPLEX and CONFUSING?

    Because it does not... exist. There is NO common TEXT available where an experienced or inexperienced Craps Player can open the text and be able to control the dice in such a way to improve or make the dice outcomes prefer their... wagers.

    Casinos only need to train their Dealers... Take, Pay, Place. Repeat after each roll. A Seven Out... take all. A winning wager... pay. Repeat, repeat and repeat to perfection.

    Break in Casinos like Joker's Wild in Henderson, Nevada play down to 25 cents. This is the most difficult Craps using parts of a Dollar. Not rounding up. Only Bubble Craps can do this down to Cents. Perfection of the Craps Game... and no doubt written into Law that the Bubble may exhibit all the features of a Craps Table... it pays out like a... Slot Machine to operate.

    A Dealer learns how to work out the Pays and later uses this ability to work the tables effectively.

    Take, Pay, Place. Reality.

    Set, Shoot and Win... just another way to charge a Player how to beat the table, but only in someone's imagination. New Years comes only once every year. When you can win consistently by the Set, Shoot and Win... the Craps Table will close and the Bubble Craps will be your one and only option.

    Reality, at times, is a difficult concept to accept. Somethings sound good, but proving it is another matter.
     
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  2. tabletop123, Jan 9, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Dice Influencing is really just a STYLE of tossing the dice. A method. Sometimes it works....sometimes not. Maybe a better description would be " Tandem, or synchronized tossing.

    Personally, I think that Linaway's material says it all. You get a no nonsense, concrete explanation of EXACTLY how your dice are performing on rach, & every toss.
    Yes...the Top numbers are what pays you, but there's more to just the Top numbers if you believe in influence.

    I have NEVER WITNESSED a long hand wherein Most of the axial results After the dice come to rest....ended up in a Heavy 7's array ( Horizontal 6's, Parallel 6's, or the Hardways Dice Set).

    Shooters never pay attention to the FACT that most Seven Outs occur in one of the Heavy 7's dice sets.

    When you see those 10-30 roll hands, & beyond... the end result of the toss will mostly show the dice axials resulting in a 2V, 3V, or X6's arrays & that's a fact.

    Contrary to popular belief....dice do certain things, REGARDLESS of how much that you THINK that you are influencing them.

    If you know how to read your dice results beyond just the Top numbers.....you are a step ahead of the rest.
     
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  3. SevenOut, Jan 9, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Tabletop123...

    Anyone who reads your post, understands Linaway's TREATISE on Dice Sets... can make all the assumptions they may want.

    Is it possible? Of course, anything that can be reduced to a mathematical explanation is possible.

    Is it worth consideration. Of course. Many nay sayers and proponents will learn more about the outcomes of a pair of six sided dies than slandering one another on this or the other Forums.

    Can some Craps Players who understand and memorize Linaway's Treatise profit from this well thought out mathematical explanation? Yes. But, I am a 'see to believe' former Craps Dealer and also 'former' Craps Player.

    Yourself, Harley and Linaway can debate this "Cult" (Ritualistic Sect) by careful examination of Dice Outcomes after a Dice Set and make some analysis. Good, Bad or Cursory results.

    Although the 'Die Bias Sect' has tempered and moved onto other areas, like insulting those who find other options to a Craps Table, aka Bubble Craps. The Bubble is Pure Craps without the corruption of the game.

    I have nothing to gain or lose in this gathering of opinions and facts.

    Since running tables in 1993, playing the tables up to two years ago... the consistent winners were not concerned about control of the Dice... the Don't Pass players.

    Why is that? Because they understand the mathematics of Craps.

    -The Progressive Craps player believes in Setting and Outcomes.
    -The Conservative Craps player understand Odds and Wagering Systems at a table, and makes adjustments. Even the Don't Pass side of Craps has advantages, without the baggage of self image.

    The adjustments of Wagering are more important than making adjustments to Dice Sets.

    -Ronald Prince falls into one category from what I have read. Do what works.

    -James Hall, as well with a more practical view of DI, but without a System.

    -Myself... experience and common sense says the 'advertising' on one side does not meet the test of time.

    We, also encounter the lowest forms of Craps Player. Those that exhibit their ignorance of Craps with ZZZzzz as they have no other response. Stupid is what stupid does.

    When you have been on both sides of a Craps Table, there is no dispute with that experience. The House can lose, sometimes, but the majority of the time the table pulls in more chips than they give out.

    I have had PM's from players who want me to take their side on everything. They are no better than those they criticize.

    Do I look like a dummy? Don't let my appearance fool anyone. I may know more of what is going on than... well, some on this Forum. A telephone/cell phone can clear the fog screen of those who make Bank, less often than expected.
     
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  4. Mssthis1, Jan 9, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    Personally I feel that Linaways work may be of use on the bubble since it is a more controlled environment and the previous roll "sets" the dice for the next roll.

    When the numbers on all the faces are aligned, such as, box cars on top and all the side faces showing a hardway, there SEEMS to be a small amount of predictability in what the next roll will NOT be.

    My jury is still out since I only noted top face results in my past tracking. I'm at the infancy phase of collecting enough rolls to prove or disprove my theory.

    If you feel "the Strategy" has merit I believe the bubble is the perfect venue for this system. One potential drawback for some is you only have the allotted time to make a decision and execute your bets.
     
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  5. TDVegas, Jan 9, 2019

    TDVegas

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    I would agree. If predictability was what we are after...the bubble, with a contained small "environment" and large dice....offers a better opportunity.

    The rounded dice edges...no question throws a monkey wrench into the possibility....nevertheless.

    Point taken.
     
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  6. TDVegas, Jan 9, 2019

    TDVegas

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    I think maybe about ~6 bubble dice can fit across the bubble floor before hitting the glass edge? The equivalent would make a craps table less than 6" across.

    I think there would be some very happy people if they could utilize a "tunnel" table 6" wide to toss dice...and no alligator.
     
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  7. KokomoJoe4, Jan 9, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

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    This is excellent Mssthis1! Pissed that I never thought about it, so thanks for bringing it up.

    The dice sit there forever waiting for the shooter to "push the button", and the dice are large. You can easily detect the axial array prior to launch, and then note its display at outcome.

    Because of the extended time, you will never mistake the array.

    If you just write down start and finish, you can determine maybe how you "should" bet.

    I wouldn't count on any great success due to randomness, but it would be easy to determine what to try.

    ^@#&(^%#. I should have been sitting at the bubble in Vegas shortly after starting to piss away my nice winner.
     
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  8. TDVegas, Jan 9, 2019

    TDVegas

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    I do think if there are potential opportunities...the bubble could offer that. Could. It would take some lengthy stat checking to gain a confidence level...but mssthis has the right idea.

    I’ve noodled with it myself.
     
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  9. Liman

    Liman Member

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    the single dice tube bubble would be the best.
     
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  10. HornHiYo, Jan 9, 2019

    HornHiYo

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    I tried doing that on a bubble and had really good results. I just let 'em roll around waiting for a group 2 and quickly pushed the button when it did. Sometimes I didn't catch a group 2, but managed to get by the group 1s enough to enjoy many nice hands. In a game like that it seemed minutes turned into hours in a flash. What made it even sweeter was watching the overly crowded craps tables across the way with players squeezed in like sardines while I played from my comfy swivel chair.
     
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  11. tabletop123, Jan 9, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Roll them around WAITING for a group 2, & then pushed the button?

    It has no merrit doing it that way.
    It's advantage when the dice CONSISTENTLY LAND in a group 2 array.

    The premise is to START in a group 1 array hoping to RESULT in a group 2 array.

    Personally, I could care less which group that they launch off in.....my only concern is what group do the dice FINISH in.
     
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  12. HornHiYo, Jan 9, 2019

    HornHiYo

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    In this game I felt it would be wise to avoid 7-heavy sets in such a confined space because they seemed to remain in the launch formation more often than not.

    I hear what you're saying but that premise is really something to try when under existing conditions the dice are not staying in the initial group set, It is also a premise for the so-called on-axis shooters that can't keep 'em in accordance to dice school definition of on-axis regardless of conditions.

    Opposite of that is where dice sit down in the starting formation. My only concern is betting in the correct group. At this machine on this eve the dice stayed more often in the launch group than not and I am glad for the results.
     
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  13. TDVegas, Jan 9, 2019

    TDVegas

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    Glad you won. Always nice to hear about someone who gives bubble craps a shot and does well. Kudos for looking for any and all quirks that might be exploited. Even if they weren't exploited....winning trumps all.
     
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  14. Liman

    Liman Member

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    yeah, winning at the bubble is great.

    best part about winning at bubble for me, theres no pushing chips into boxman,(if you win a lot and have a lot of small chips), NOONE else knows how you are doing, its nice and private, win 1500 bucks, its nobodys business, they aren't staring at your money.
    and getting paid exact on any sized bet makes it a bit more convenient when Im playing in relaxtion mode.
     
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  15. HornHiYo, Jan 9, 2019

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    I'm always looking for quirks but haven't seen an upward drift in variance like that any too often. But when a quirk meshes with the game at hand it makes for a sweet walk to the cage.
     
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  16. HornHiYo, Jan 9, 2019

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    That's for sure. It is a nice escape from the rat race and I didn't feel I had to look over my shoulder (much) on the way out.
     
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  17. James Hall, Jan 9, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    If you don't want to push chips to box man . don't , easy peasy
    Your favorite game no doubt , the big problem is the
    absolute lack of control that many people use to win
     
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  18. James Hall, Jan 9, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    If on the bubble , the previous roll sets the dice for the next
    roll that would sound like one of two things
    either the theory is the dice might have a memory
    or there may be some control within the machine
    something that maybe could / should be explored , I might just pursue that.
     
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  19. James Hall, Jan 9, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    I like the sound of synchronized tossing,
    This sounds like someone advocating DICE INFLUENCE.
     
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  20. James Hall, Jan 9, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    This is exactly the factor that makes winning more possible.
    Having a better idea of the result at hand.
    yep that could be a problem
     
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