Surviving on a $200 to $300 Bankroll

Discussion in 'Bankroll Management' started by SevenOut, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. basicstrategy777, Apr 7, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    7 out......thanks for your contribution........it's good you have a different craps site you hang out at where you are stimulated every day by craps talk by great experienced players......it's a subject, like an expanding universe, where new exciting things constantly can be experienced and learned......I bet you are good at playing the game.

    777
     
    #121
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  2. SevenOut, Apr 15, 2018

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    ********
    I do not visit other Craps Forums. Why would I? The content is usually Generic and nothing to be gained. There is nothing new with the outcomes of a Pair of Dice.

    Few discuss System Players or Systems. Why, because then they have committed themselves to saying something that can be discussed and criticized.

    This is especially true for Dice Control and variants of DC, DI, DS and other variants of the same thing. From watching Dice Setters (could also be Dice Control or Dice Influencing) their 'system' does not reflect what their desired outcomes of the Set are expected to be. Many cover ALL of the Numbers and press up on wins, often not even having Odds on the Point. The most flagrant are those setting for outcomes that favor... HARDWAYS... and do not wager on the hardway, even when they have a Place or Pass line wager on them.

    Some, not all, but many, DS/DI/DC wager often on the High, Low and All. Explain that to me, unless they are constantly changing their DICE SETS to improve their odds. Although they do not change their Place Bet wagers as they change their Dice Sets, when setting for different outcomes.

    Craps is simple. The dice outcomes remain from 2 to 12. The mathematics is the same on Sunday or Thursday. Evening or Mornings. A 12 foot table has no better or worse odds than an 8 foot or a 14 foot table. Although the Center Wagers in Australia pay better odds than in the USA.

    I was a Dealer. I trained Dealers. I trained Players. I ran a 12 foot and a 14 foot table with dealers and customers playing. After two years... the first day and the last day did not change my opinion, the opinions of the Dealers, nor Players. We welcomed anyone shooting the dice. Most large wins were on One Roll Wagers.

    I can make up better stories than those on the Forum that promote large wins with large bankrolls. Watch the $25 table action. Watch the $3 table action. There are just as many poor gamblers on each table. Bankroll does not indicate intelligence. Just access to cash.

    My Stock Broker wants to learn Craps when he comes to Las Vegas. He wants to learn at the Craps Table. I asked how much does he wants to lose in the process.... pick a dollar figure. You do not learn at a Craps Table. You first must understand CRAPS and the Outcomes of a Pair of Dice. Biased or not, it is all the same. The more you understand, the less superstition of how and why you won or lost is involved. At least you understand... WHY.

    Your Bankroll. Your Money Management. Your System.

    The rest is pure, random odds and dice outcomes. Anyone who says otherwise... is selling something.
     
    #122
  3. SevenOut, Apr 15, 2018

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I do not want just to pick on... Craps Players.

    Roulette: Wheel 'Timers'. They would practice their wagers before going to Las Vegas. If you understand 'wheel timing', look it up. Our dealers would watch and then... change their ball or wheel speed. Absolutely... loved these guys. They women would pick holes in the table cloth.

    Blackjack: Single and Double Deck... only you at the table... Counting Cards is only for those who have photographic memory and understand wagering. Dealing multiple deck shoes... you have to be out of your mind to think you can count anything but tens and aces, at best.

    OK. This does not include the Roulette wheel with 36 Dice Outcomes and a layout on a Blackjack table at the Stations Casino at Kansas City, Missouri. I have one of the layouts from the company in Las Vegas who made them as a novelty. I watched a Craps Dealer from another local Casino playing it one evening. He was actually one of my Dealers before Riverboot Gambling. Imagine the System or Systems one could come up with this set up. I doubt if it lasted very long, but some table manufacturer was dreaming up a way for five Craps Players, a Roulette Wheel and a layout designed for a Craps Table game in one package.
     
    #123
  4. von duck, Apr 15, 2018

    von duck

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    If your understanding of blackjack card counting is no better than this, then, you never worked at a casino. Photographic memory my ass. :cool:
     
    #124
  5. SevenOut, Apr 15, 2018

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Would you quote me at which Casino I said I had worked? Although I did go through a Casino's Craps Dealer School in Kansas City. It was not the kind of work I was interested, even to get my foot in the door.

    It would be great if you would start a Thread and provide useful information. You spend too much time as a critic of things you know very little.

    Maybe explain why you believe what you do and how it works for or against you. You no doubt watched 'Rainman' and believed Dustin Hoffman was a card counter.
     
    #125
  6. SevenOut, Apr 15, 2018

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Well... maybe I could add that I worked at and owned a Casino. It was called the Gameroom Casino and was the first listing in the Yellow Pages (when they had yellow pages) under... Casinos.

    Riverboat Casinos were two years later. Southwestern Bell came to our 'Casino', saw the tables and slot machines, business license... and we became the first listed Casino in the State of Missouri. Perfectly legal, purchased gaming supplies like a Casino, sold equipment to the general public. The city's Police Chief would come and work on his Blackjack game before traveling to Las Vegas.

    Two of my Dealers dealt Blackjack and Roulette in Las Vegas. The majority, if not all dealers took positions at various Riverboats with up to two years dealing experience. I doubt if they play much, as a Dealer has a different outlook towards gambling. After spending shifts dealing and observing the general public you would understand.

    I am sure you have a list of gaming related stories, other than being a player.
     
    #126
  7. von duck, Apr 15, 2018

    von duck

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    If you think that counting cards, in blackjack requires a photographic memory, then you know nothing of how it is done. I see no way you could be on the inside, and be this uninformed. A person competent in blackjack, would not make such a glaring mistake. :cool:
     
    #127
  8. tabletop123, Apr 15, 2018

    tabletop123

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    I have a buddy that worked ( Don't know if he is still there) at Horseshoe in Tunica. He mainly works the Craps, & BlackJack tables.
    He once told me: " There is NO WAY that he would play at a Craps table with ANYONE'S money!

    He actually worked a table when Frank Scoblete, & crew had their Jamboree in Tunica. The way that he explained it: " A table full of SUPPOSEDLY good Shooters , & only one person had a good roll ( some guy named John? I think they call him skinny?).

    Raeford said that they did bet large ( purples & orange), but that they all walked away loser. I asked him was a guy named Dominator there? He said: " Who the fu**k is that"? Lol

    This occured around 2005-2006? He also said that their session didn't last long!
     
    #128
  9. tabletop123, Apr 15, 2018

    tabletop123

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    I always thought that it was +, or -( plus or minus). Is the count plus or minus!
     
    #129
  10. von duck, Apr 15, 2018

    von duck

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    That's right, and it does not require a photographic memory. There is basically one or two counts to remember, coupled with a calculation of remaining cards. It does take practice to do it, it does not take a photographic memory. It is no more difficult for eight decks than one. :cool:
     
    #130
  11. basicstrategy777, Apr 16, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    The first gambling book I wrote was on Blackjack. Although it does not cover card counting ( it covered the entirity of the game and basicstrategy.) I found counting 10's and aces was easy and helped determine when the shoe was 10/aces rich or not. I would keep count of 10's in my head ( 16 = 1 deck worth ) and aces by a stack of chips I set to the side......1 chip equaled a deck of aces ( 4).....every chip on the side told me 4 aces had been played....I prefer 3rd base as I can see all the card that have been dealt before I play and it is closest to the discard try where I can estimate the number of decks played.

    It should be noted there are different counting systems and like anything else some are harder than others.

    It should be noted the 5 count is also powerful as the 5 card is even more important than the ace. If all 5's ( 4 ) are removed from a 52 card deck this gives the player a 3.04 percent advantage on the house.

    I focused on blackjack and craps as these 2 game are very, very low HA games.....

    My craps book took over a year to write and I think it is a very good book for the beginner craps player.

    777
     
    #131
  12. Mssthis1, Apr 16, 2018

    Mssthis1

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    Counting cards isn't that difficult.

    What is difficult is betting within your bankroll. Your advantage at times is only going to be a few percentage points at most. A card counter who is betting $50 or $100 on positive count hands is still going to go broke if he doesn't have a bankroll to support up and down swings in the 10's of thousands.

    There's a guy here that everyone knows is a card counter. They let him count away because when the count gets positive he shoves out a $500 bet, table max. They know he doesn't have the bankroll to support that play so they don't sweat the occasional win streak. He consistently goes broke, goes down to $5 tables until he gets some money built up, moves to $25 tables and eventually loses it due to normal volatility.

    People like Ben Affleck scare the casinos. They know a person like that has the bankroll. Someone like that will get barred in a heartbeat as he did.
     
    #132
  13. SevenOut, Apr 16, 2018

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    If we could discuss Craps and alternative Systems and Bankroll, like the previous posts in Blackjack, we would all gain some very useful information. Thank you.

    Just because one can 'count cards' and keep someone else from hitting a 16 when the dealer has a five or six card up... it can totally change atmosphere at any Blackjack table.

    Big money players do not play on the Casino Floor.

    Craps is simple compared to Card Games.

    Anyone who plans on making a living at the tables or slots at any Casino can only do it, if they work for the Casino as a Dealer. The Las Vegas newspaper is full of cases of these players going bankrupt and losing everything, to make back what they had lost previously.

    As long as you admit that Playing the Tables, Slot, Video Blackjack are Games of Chance, you will only lose what you can afford, no matter your ability. An exception are live Poker tables. Even then the competition is stiff and the best do not always win.

    There are more books on Blackjack and Poker. If anyone believes you can become an Expert Blackjack or Poker player just by reading a book... you need to take a deep breath and consult someone who is a professional. They write books to cover their losses.

    The only book that sold well in our shop was Scarne's New Complete Guide to Gambling. The Blackjack and Poker books I could not even recover my costs. I gave them away as door prizes. there are hundreds out there. Used copies now on the Internet for $1 each without buyers.

    Casinos go bankrupt, not from people winning, but poor money management on their part and taking on too much debt. Slot machines pay the bills. Table games are expensive to run and smart players... Hit and Run when they are ahead. Next time you are in Las Vegas, check out the 'local's Casino'. Lots of empty tables...

    I do enjoy critics telling me I do not know anything. I keep only two Gaming Books. Both by John Scarne. One I have already mentioned. The other is Scarne on Dice. Only then will you understand.
     
    #133
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  14. TDVegas, Apr 16, 2018

    TDVegas

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    Always find your posts an enjoyable read, SevenOut. Knowledgable, on point and reality in gaming.
     
    #134
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  15. von duck, Apr 16, 2018

    von duck

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    :confused: Yeah, he's a blast. :D :cool: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............. of
     
    #135
  16. von duck, Apr 16, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Over a year? That's about 1/2 page a day, you really are slow a slow typist. Give Crispcem, the "hard sell" I think it's a lock. Cha-Ching! :)
     
    #136
  17. basicstrategy777, Apr 16, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    I'll put it out there.....but I don't chase. It will have very,very, very little effect on me, but maybe substantial effect on the reader. It's funny how people piss away money on stuff, but balk at 11 cents a day.over a years time.....people are really fucked up in their thinking, often. ......Look at you !

    777
     
    #137
  18. random_roller, Apr 16, 2018

    random_roller

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    I agree with you that a photographic memory isn't at all necessary in order to be successful at card counting.
     
    #138
  19. random_roller, Apr 16, 2018

    random_roller

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    Is Sally Struthers going to pitch your book(s) on tv? :D:eek:

    The craps publication you authored is a very good one. The non-traditional format (3 ring binder, rather than a bound book) allows comments to be easily added on a page (or additional printed pages from other sources, such as this forum, to be inserted), which might prove especially helpful for newer players.
     
    #139
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  20. DeMango, Apr 16, 2018

    DeMango

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    Klunk.
    That's the sound you hear of you falling off the pedestal of all knowing dealer/trainer. Photographic Memory?? How about each card has a value and it's plus one, minus one. Finding your ignorance hard to believe, except you say you don't visit other boards. It shows.
     
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