Surviving on a $200 to $300 Bankroll

Discussion in 'Bankroll Management' started by SevenOut, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. SevenOut, Dec 10, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    ********

    When you are the ONLY PLAYER at the Craps Table... you are the perpetual SHOOTER. They will keep pushing the dice to you until you put the Casino into financial ruin... or ... they put you into financial ruin. Which ever comes first.

    I play the $5 tables, which are common in the Western US Casinos. That makes the $200/$300 Bankroll effective. Once you get into the $10 minimum and $25 minimum tables... you have to multiply your bankroll to play to win. At least with my game.

    Remember... a BANKROLL IS ONLY NECESSARY IF YOU ARE LOSING. That is your maximum loss limit.

    IF YOU ARE WINNING... now your concern is to decide HOW MUCH of your present winnings are you going to pocket and how long you want to stay at the table until the losses per game take more than you winnings. If you persist to play after a winning session, you will most likely be leaving a losing session... Can I prove this? I sure did when I did not know any better WHEN to quit.

    To wait 2 minutes or longer before shooting the dice will seem like eternity looking at the dice sitting in front of you. I would estimate the average time dice are held before shooting, dice whackers like myself or dice setters, less than 6 seconds. Taking a 15 second breather will probably feel better and the dice will not have any change in their possible combinations in any event.
     
    #41
  2. $nakeEye$, Dec 11, 2013

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    IF and WHEN - YOU are the ONLY shooter at the table -

    Like I initially stated - YOU are in TOTAL control -

    IF you need / desire / require / seek time between hands when you just 7'd out -

    BY ALL MEANS - stand at the table WITHOUT making a Pass Line wager -

    Gather your thoughts / regain your confidence level / consider what you did that needs improvement -

    And then - when YOU are ready -

    Make a Pass Line wager , get the dice , set , grip and focus !

    There is NOTHING NOWHERE that says you must maintain a certain level of continuity when playing -

    The dealers take THEIR time is paying out and placing bets -

    YOU take YOUR time to establish YOUR comfortable shooting pace !

    And like Great Great Grandma $nakeEye$ always said to me - " F*ck THEM ! " !

    $...eE..$
     
    #42
  3. DeMango, Dec 11, 2013

    DeMango

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    It's voila.
    An extreme high total wager would be 10%, but really a for $300 you need to find a $3 table. You can't fight the math. Variance and risk of ruin will and do eat you up. And go to a table with acceptable bounce.
     
    #43
  4. SevenOut, Dec 12, 2013

    SevenOut

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    ***************

    I think you made some nice points about the $200/$300 bankroll money management. I eliminated some of the previous text to narrow down the points you did make.

    Although the "I take as much to the table as I am willing to lose, but with a relatively low probability of busting", does contradict the Bankroll Management argument I have been comfortable with. I ONLY put up at the table the amount I am willing to LOSE. I have NO limit to what I win... only to protect myself from exceeding LOSSES, by bringing the maximum up to the table to play.

    Some Craps Players think playing Craps is like a Poker Game where you can BLUFF. Nope... the dice will WIN in the long run. The limiting of your bankroll is the most effective money management practice available to prevent financial ruin at the tables.

    Thank you for some points that others should study those that are most important and, as you say, "you learn a lot with experiments like these". Fellow Craps Players need to understand the difference between speculation and smart game plans... and that comes with "experimenting". Good or bad, it is a true learning experience!
     
    #44
  5. SevenOut, Dec 12, 2013

    SevenOut

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    **********

    You "might" agree that after four losses and losing 2/3rds of your bankroll... it is not because of not having money management issues... but, you have BAD TIMING stepping up to a Craps Table that is losing. Losing because it is choppy, PSO, or just not hitting your bets.

    I have stepped up to a table and began winning immediately and was very reluctant to QUIT... when the dice turned on my game, eating into my quick wins. It is always more entertaining having a give and take for awhile and leave as a winner... later. It just does not happen that way.

    My end of playing is when I have lost 100%, or to the point there is not enough bankroll to play effectively. That is the life of a $200/$300 bankroll Craps Player. You want to bring $1000 to the table... and figure losing 30% is a time to quit... what is the difference? Your buying in with a larger bankroll just increases your getting carried away with optimism and losing MORE, having the $1000 more of a comfort total than actual playing funds.

    I have to step back and say that I play Craps for recreation with the possibility of winning. I am comfortable managing my bets with the bankroll still available, wanting to catch a positive turn of the dice. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it does not.

    But when I leave the table, I am not concerned with what am I going to do to replace the $500, $1000 or whatever amount, over my bankroll limit.
     
    #45
  6. SevenOut, Dec 12, 2013

    SevenOut

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    I had missed your early comment on bankroll management for those of us in the $200 and $300 game plan(s). You have a true plan, unlike those players who buy in for $1000 and have a "stop limit" at $300... It is like wearing the large gold chains to a Casino... which are 24k gold plated silver.

    You are never tempted to jump in after a loss, thinking this latest shooter is now hitting your numbers... and immediately after you put out your bets... Sevens Out.

    If I had any better answer, than your formula, I would write a book... but would be not telling anyone the truth. I cannot predict how my Craps game is going to settle out until I LEAVE.

    I either:

    Licking my wounds and hope to do better next time.
    Feel lucky I broke close to even and LEFT.
    Am glowing that this win will make up for "the licking or breaking even" on previous games.
     
    #46
  7. cmonhard8, Dec 12, 2013

    cmonhard8

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    I'm so glad you googled it to find the french spelling for us---sigh.....Most of us don't live in Vegas or Atlantic City, so the casinos in the area do NOT have $3 craps tables..If you even read my post, I said that was the ONLY craps table open at the casino--period..As far as the 'high end wager' logic...Your grand strategy, walking up to a $10 table, with a $200 amount would be no different..
     
    #47
  8. Grizzoola, Dec 12, 2013

    Grizzoola

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  9. SevenOut, Feb 17, 2014

    SevenOut

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    The $200/$300 Bankroll will work for up to a $10 minimum table. I do not like hitting the Pass Line with $10 for the Come Out seven winner and craps loser. I do not protect my hitting a craps on the Come Out... but... OK toss a buck for a little insurance on the Come Out. Not what I recommend, but if you feel better, go ahead.

    BUT, thinking you are playing smart with minimum bets with a Good System is poor Bankroll Management.

    I know. You have driven four hours, round trip, to PLAY. The Casino is counting on those players, as they will play minimum bets and when the hot roll begins... and your confidence to increase your bets has arrived... Seven Out. Too late. New shooter.

    Comments that some have tried this aggressive System I have offered. It is only Aggressive if you LOSE. If you have the $10 and $12 Place Bets and $5 Hard 6 and Hard 8 working for you... you have a chance. Take $400 and make it two Sessions. $200 each. Play aggressive, you lose. Take a break. How about a Buffet. It will take some of the negative thoughts and have them digested with desert. Then... go back at it with the other $200. Same game. Same system. Press up when your comfort level is achieved. I find pressing the Place 6 and 8 AND pressing up an additional $5 each on the Hardways... works well for me. Get an easy way 6 or 8, toss out a $5 chip on the Hardway and when the house is paying off on the 5 or 9, toss another $5 chip and press the Hardway of choice.

    Never play for Game TIME. That is the Casino's winning strategy. Yours is Hit and Run winning strategy. If you can win quickly... you may feel cheated... but manage the Bankroll so you can ride the winning session to an end. After losing the first $200, never try to WIN it all back... but take advantage of a good game... and decide NOW is the time to QUIT.

    When someone recommends that you need to learn Dice Control... think about this. Are you kidding me? You and I are $200 and $300 game players. Dice Control... how about putting $5,000 on the table with the same good System used by these players setting the Dice. It just may not be the control of the Dice that is winning... but the well tested, smart SYSTEM of PLAY.

    This $200/$300 System is buying a nice steak with all of the fat and gristle removed at the same price of a poor cut with fat, gristle and water removed from the scale.

    Look at the photo of this Craps Player. A close look. Does this person seem concerned that some of you do not believe that the Casino and Santa Claus are not the one and same? If you cannot post an accurate photograph of yourself, like I did, on this Forum... you probably need to spend $10 for a good haircut and reread this Thread. ... and tip the poor gal, she works hard for her money as well.

    Good luck and some day our paths may cross and you will owe me LUNCH.
     
    #49
  10. tercol58, Feb 17, 2014

    tercol58

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    Well Sir I did get a haircut today and I did tip too
     
    #50
  11. SevenOut, Feb 17, 2014

    SevenOut

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    It looks like you have enough to hang in there. It will look better when coloring up and carrying away more of the 5C chips! Tell us what you think and your game.
     
    #51
  12. tercol58, Feb 17, 2014

    tercol58

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    No I don't have what it takes to hang in there more of a recreational player I finally realize.
     
    #52
  13. SevenOut, Feb 17, 2014

    SevenOut

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    "No I don't have what it takes to hang in there more of a recreational player I finally realize."

    We are ALL recreational players. Some might consider themselves as "Professional Craps Players" but that has to be seen.

    Once you quit being a recreational player... it is no longer any fun. Some Craps Players will take a lifetime of income to discover what you did in two posts.

    Play for the sport and hope for the best. Good luck and make your game work for you.
     
    #53
  14. SevenOut, Feb 19, 2014

    SevenOut

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    Today... today was my first RETURN to the Craps Table since being at the Sandia Casino in Albuquerque, New Mexico in June. A good seven months between then and the Ameristar, Blackhawk, Colorado.

    You do get a bit rusty.

    I was keeping an eye on MY game and trying to figure out a player next to me at the same time playing a Don't Come and Eleven and Any Seven. He would get a 6 or 8 and call it back and would keep only the 4, 5, 9 or 10. And then some $1 chips on all Hardways. He would play $12 Odds on his Don't 4 and 10 to win $6. He loved keeping the 4's and 10's on the Don't Come... until this guy began tossing seven or eight, 4's and 10's ,more frequently than hitting any of my inside bets! That is when he went to playing the Front Line Pass game. Just a quirk in that roll.

    The best this table produced was ONE Pass maximum for any shooter. Ouch. TWO Point, Seven, Outs in a row.

    When the Don't Come player was shooting, he would set the dice with an 11 on top and no other particular order, when his time came up to shoot, playing a minimum Pass Line Bet and minimal odds.

    I began with $300. The first two shooters, Point, Seven, Out. Ouch. I was getting into my third hundred when I was hitting some $5 and $10 Hardway 6 or 8 hits, recovered and was lucky to leave short only $50.00. I colored up for $250 and tossed the two stray dollar chips, one dollar hard 6 and 8, working on the Come Out for the Dealers and LEFT.

    The PSO hits hard when you just start. So I paid about $1 a minute to play. All worth it for recreational Craps, but I checked my Comps on the card and had .26 cents. Maybe that was from the Buffet that my wife and I had before playing Craps. She lost $40 on the Video Poker and had .36 cents in comps/cash value.

    I need to get back to a table sooner and hope for a better result. The one guy who walked up and bought the 4 and 10 for $25 each was not disappointed. The Don't Come bettor and I looked at each other and we both understood that this was some "out of the Craps Pyramid" mathematical averages!

    Next time... it might be less work and easier counting the chips coming in rather than keeping a bankroll count to even money. My EVEN money was left on the table after the good run up... and that ended... I am G.O.N.E..
     
    #54
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  15. $nakeEye$, Feb 19, 2014

    $nakeEye$

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    SevenOut -

    Why - Oh - WHY -

    Do I and about , at minimum , 2 - 3 DOZEN others that I regularly shoot craps with -

    Tend to DISPUTE your rationale ?

    Probably, because , for the MOST part, it is WAY OFF base -

    BUT, then again , I do NOT play craps in your circle of ? ( associates / morons / rocket scientists / chicken feeders / CRAPS EXPERTS / recreational players ) -

    Used to - till WE got together and decided to eliminate the BS that ' recreational players ' with their exorbitant $200 - $300 bankrolls bring to the table -

    YOU go YOUR way - WE will go OUR way -

    When WE see the likes of YOU -

    YOU will see OUR coat-tails !

    And YOU can take THAT to the cashier's cage !

    $...eE..$
     
    #55
  16. SevenOut, Feb 19, 2014

    SevenOut

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    Yes... I passed that same Police Line Up with the two to three Dozen the Cops had rounded up as well...

    After this election in the USA... I have to agree with you. The smart voters voted and made those of us that did not follow the coat tails out of the voting booths, making us look pretty dumb.

    I have always told the chicken feeders whom I play with, often... It is better to leave the Casino with a $200 loss and have a full set of natural teeth, unlike some of the High Rollers I have met.
     
    #56
  17. 514natural, Feb 25, 2014

    514natural

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    Sevenout,
    I've read quite a bit of your post and I could appreciate your realism.
    I went to the casino today for the second day straight(sounds bad I know), and I was alone at the table for my first two rolls,I sevened out,unfortunately, by that time a woman approached the table,obviously a newbie, hit a few good numbers that had me eating for a while.

    Fast forward an hour some higher bankroll guys show up 30 minutes apart.I watched one of them blow 500$ first followed by 300$ (maybe 4 times)at a time of their bankroll,mind you my bankroll was 100$,by that time I was already up 200$.

    My point is, not only did the bigger bankroll guys leave the table before me, they left without any winnings(could happen to anyone) while I left with 5 times my bankroll
    Perfect example of bigger bankroll not meaning better chances of winning

    Best of luck to all
    Natural
     
    #57
  18. basicstrategy777, Feb 26, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    Bigger bankrolls with a low win goal have a better chance of winning than small bank rolls with a high win goal; it's just tougher to win starting with little money.

    777
     
    #58
  19. 514natural, Feb 26, 2014

    514natural

    514natural Member

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    777
    Although your high-low low-high reference is a good argument,
    I beg to differ that it is any HARDER to win with a smaller bankroll than it is with a larger one . You merely have a higher chance at lasting a the table,then again that doesn't really matter if your bankroll is an amount that you "Dont mind" losing.
    Problem with a larger bankroll with alot of people is their game plan and the lack discipline it takes to win.they bet too aggressively.
    Personally I think whether u have a big or small bankroll doesn't matter unless you took a 2-7 hour road trip JUST to play craps in which case you should stay home with your little 200-300$.
    otherwise play n have fun

    for the record 777 I find some of your post rather interesting. keep it up.

    Best of luck to all
    Natural
     
    #59
  20. basicstrategy777, Feb 27, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    Like Iron Mike said......"everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the face."

    Little money/ lots of money....even with the best management skills and discipline, if you are not lucky you will lose.

    However, even if you are unlucky, if you are still in the game because you still have money, you have a chance. The one thing about luck is....it will eventually change. If you have run out of money because you have not brought much money, you can't play, hence, lady luck cannot accompany you , and you will have zero chance of winning.

    I've been rich and I've been poor.....rich is better.

    777
     
    #60