So God Made a Liberal.....

Discussion in 'Offtopic Lounge' started by basicstrategy777, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. twodicebilly, Jul 31, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    777


    It is not a matter of right or wrong, it is how do we go about improving the position
    of this country......
    The first thing is to understand not all congressmen and senators are bad or act
    in a way that is un-American..... there are many good ones.....
    an ego centered Trump says screw it I always get what I want.... and he will fail
    because he can not control this like he is used to.......a real smart Trump, the kind
    he certainly has the ability to be....uses the support of the good ones and parlays the
    support solid support of the 44-45 states into a position where you can get that
    50th vote...... you make it not about Trump ( he will never get that 50th vote that way)
    you make the choice between the American people or leave the party and become
    democrats, which is what they are anyway.

    777 Trump did not get all he has gotten done in life by just being a bull dozer, I suggest
    he also used his head..... his kids are damned smart..... and I think he is also.

    This is one time Trump has to be part of a team to win this one....

    twodicebilly
     
    #141
  2. basicstrategy777, Jul 31, 2017

    basicstrategy777

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    2db......he did not accomplish everything he did in public life and in politics by being stupid. He is not stupid.

    He knows how to work people to get what he wants.....sometimes the carrot, sometimes the stick.

    Based upon what he has done to date....you should give him more credit than you do.

    And you should know by now he is not a republican nor democrat....he had to run under the republican banner to get elected. His agenda is what is good for America and he will steal good ideas from both party's to make it happen. It is very unfortunate all politicians cannot put America FIRST....they put themselves first and if you think otherwise you are a fool.

    777
     
    #142
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  3. twodicebilly, Jul 31, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    I think Trump puts himself first..... period..... the only hope we have is that
    "he" can contain his ego..

    If we go on like this, he will fire the prosecutor and Sessions and he will be impeached
    and that fight will take to next year..... nothing big will get done..

    777 the power of the pen is temporary..... Obama did lots, Trump has undone some
    of that......but the big stuff needs votes, when your fighting impeachment, there are no
    votes.

    any business as large as Trumps has some
    problems hidden, and they will find them.. he will get pissed and say there is no reason for
    this, and he will fire Sessions for not preventing it and the prosecutor for doing it. The
    dems will impeach, now they wont win.... but they will make it very hard for anyone to
    vote for anything....

    777 I see this playing out as clear as I have ever seen anything.

    tdb
     
    #143
  4. basicstrategy777, Jul 31, 2017

    basicstrategy777

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    I've made my position clear.

    What are you going to say when obama-care gets re-done and the tax cuts get done and infrastructure gets done and the new budget gets done.....what are you going to tell me....." I told you so."

    Trump needs control over the special prosecutor, he doesn't have that with Sessions. Sessions has to go as AG. He will take over Kelly's job. It will appear this was entirely Sessions idea and Trump won't take the hit.

    The special prosecutor is suppose to investigate crimes. There is no crime he is investigating. He is hunting Trump and is determined to get him for SOMETHING. He must be removed for this reason.



    777
     
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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  5. twodicebilly, Jul 31, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    777

    God help us all if you think you are correct.

    tdb
     
    #145
  6. basicstrategy777, Jul 31, 2017

    basicstrategy777

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    God has....and will continue to help Trump.

    I believe God loves America.

    There can be no other explanation.

    777
     
    #146
  7. badddoin, Jul 31, 2017

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    The problem with the healthcare vote was they put forth a bill that nobody wanted to become law. (The skinny bill, or whatever). That's pretty lame, if you ask me.

    The problem the Republicans now face is that most Americans want the ACA repaired.

    If they can restart the conversation with the wishes of most Americans in mind, I think they'll fare much better.

    Look, we all listened for 7 years about how bad the ACA is, and if the Republicans ever got the chance they'd repeal it in its entirety. It wasn't till this election cycle that I heard squat about repeal-and-replace.

    If it was that bad, then a straight repeal should have been a slam-dunk. No need to delay implementation till after the midterms. Let the chips fall, we'll all be living off the fat of the land.

    It took a year and a half to get the ACA passed. Republicans participated in that process right up to very near the end. Lots of Republican amendments passed right along with it. It was at that point (when the bill was going to be voted on) that the Republicans threw down the partisan gauntlet.

    It's gonna be more difficult for Commander Orange-Aid to get 50 votes going forward, after this defeat. Lawmakers aren't afraid of him now. His approval ratings are dismal. With the exception of a couple of inbred southern states, most members or congress are wondering whether being associated with him might actually be a liability.

    Remember, the Republicans took control of the Senate in 2014 without so much as a platform. Every Senator had the same message: I am not Obama.

    The Democrats have to defend 10 Senate seats that Trump carried, some of them quite handily. Although that certainly doesn't bode well for them, historically the opposition party's incumbents do pretty well. I think it's highly unlikely that the Republicans will pick up 8 seats in the Senate. If I were Clair, though, down there in fetusville, I might be exploring my options.
     
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  8. Settingcanthurt, Jul 31, 2017

    Settingcanthurt

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    Don't plagerize baddoing. Put up links to where you get your posts. We all know you are unable to write this well.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Rem...BjrTVAhVm7IMKHf7aBWkQBQgjKAA&biw=1280&bih=894
     
    #148
  9. badddoin, Jul 31, 2017

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    #149
  10. twodicebilly, Jul 31, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    badddoin

    The democratic party is united they want socialism,,, they don't believe in this country
    unless it is a place to change to what they want..... they are all the same, they vote the
    same on any real significant issue......
    look at Kates Law....you commit a felony here and you are not legal you go home.... the dems
    wont even vote for that. you are here illegal and rape people....fine.. no problem we deport you
    and you come back....hey great to see you again.

    The reps are not a party, they are a collection of americans that are just not dems.....they all
    want a country different than the dems, but they don't know for how much of the original
    intent they believe in.
    When they had 17 people run for president that should have told you something, 17 different ideas.

    My humble opinion is that the republicans do not have control of the senate... it is still 49 reps and 51
    dems.....

    I think a really good president, one that builds people up, strokes the egos of these egomaniacs could
    pass a few bills that help, but not another egomaniac.

    I do agree with 777 to a point, it had to be devine intervention to get a Trump win.....but you need to remember,
    there are not a lot of people in the country that believe in god right now, the rest control the government, the
    press, the schools, and 52 senators

    tdb
     
    #150
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  11. TDVegas, Jul 31, 2017

    TDVegas

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    The entire problem or issue on repealing the current healthcare plan is there is no solution unless people are willing to accept things that no civilized country would be willing to do.

    If the CBO numbers are correct...20-30 million will lose coverage. The ONLY way TrumpCare would work is if those uninsured can ONLY receive medical treatment IF they can pay. This does not include people on Medicaid.

    That would mean locking down the hospital emergency room doors. Those that can pay, will get treated. Those that can't will be turned away. Hospitals were closing and losing money...number 1 because the DSH payments were not enough to cover their costs for treating "no pay" people....and the "no pay" people were growing...and growing...and growing.

    A direct result of the problems hospitals were facing were tied to an alarming situation of people not having health insurance and showing up on their door.

    25 years ago, premiums were rising out of hand. I saw it first hand. At the same time small business owners were discontinuing health insurance benefits or not offering it to new employees.

    I fear there is NO practicable solution that will not leave tens of millions out of luck. If you are willing to go that route...that's a personal decision. Just don't sugar coat it with "they will be taken care of".
     
    #151
  12. twodicebilly, Jul 31, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    TDV


    What Obama wanted was a welfare program for low income people.....he could not sell that so he
    lied about it and said it would make all health care better.....

    He treated us like a drug pusher treats new clients....he gives you free drugs until your hooked...then
    look out.

    So now we are hooked,,,,,80% of the people on Obama care are subsidized, 70% have their costs paid
    100%....

    We cant go back because the people hooked on free stuff will make to much noise, we cant go forward
    because a single payer system can not be paid for....

    The dems have made it that all the costs of federal tax, debt service and everything else is paid for by
    the upper 50% any future costs of heath care will be paid for by the upper 50%.....If you want to
    have an expanded health care system, the burden has to be shared by all, in order that it provide
    a reasonable return on the investment..

    The CBO numbers are goofy, they indicate more people will lose insurance than are actually on it
    now.... that is because they project more and more people will be added to the medicare rolls.

    This is all nonsense.... you could have taken the system we had 10 years ago, added a rider for
    pre-existing condition and a broadly supported major medical rider paid for with a small contribution
    from every existing policy, a federal and state contribution.... and you could have done it at a fraction
    of the cost we see today...... Indeed the many countries in the world that have a good health care system
    use a combination of private and public services with a significant reliance on private forces.

    Obama hated American that were able to pay their own way so he took care of that.

    tdb
     
    #152
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  13. TDVegas, Jul 31, 2017

    TDVegas

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    The numbers of uninsured were rising 10 years ago, They were rising 20 years ago. There was no plan in place to do anything. They started flooding hospital rooms with no insurance.

    Your rider for pre-existing solves nothing for the uninsured...and that number was rising. Costs of premiums were rising. I saw it FIRST HAND with the small business I worked for. It was fact. The premiums were rising and the benefits were shrinking.

    small business solution (thru no fault of their own) was to cut benefits or not offer them. 20+ years ago guys were telling me that their interviews went well with small business...but many stated they were no longer offering health insurance as part of employment.

    what do you think is going to happen?

    More uninsured. More flooding the emergency room as they use the hospital for basic healthcare.

    if you want to go back to what it was 10 years ago...then you will see more hospitals fold under the weight of treating people and not being reimbursed. DSH payments did not make up the difference. It was the hospitals calling for ObamaCare....mandated insurance.

    what are you doing with all these people with no insurance? If you want to lock the hospital doors...so be it. Fine. Don't tell me "Oh we will treat them"....without noting the corresponding problems....

    I have no issue if you personally want to shut the doors to them. That is your decision. Just don't tell me everything was fine 10 years ago. The uninsured were growing 10 years ago.

    This is an unsolvable problem...many millions will be left in the cold. If we are fine doing that...do it. Just don't sugar coat with the bullshit "everyone will be taken care of".
     
    #153
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  14. Settingcanthurt, Jul 31, 2017

    Settingcanthurt

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    if one suffers all must suffer as in all Communist governments.

    obama care even at its best has limits on care. This pre-existing condition need, is, because of cost. It is to be covered no matter what we end up with. As a trade the elderly will suffer. You are at a certain age and in need of say a new hip they look at the chart to see what your life expectancy is. you are beyond that? No new hip. Just one example of the "needs of the many" demands of health care. if you are useful you will get better care. Look at Great Britten with this baby who had a genetic disease who just died. The U.S. wanted to treat him (experiment) which is what we do. we innovate, we create, It is why health care is so expensive.
    http://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0006_health-care-oecd
     
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  15. twodicebilly, Jul 31, 2017

    twodicebilly

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    within 2 years without significant change there will
    be no Obama care..... everyone will lose their care, the
    CBO never scored the future of Obama care to compare to
    something else.

    LIke Dems say...... you cant leave the poor without insurance, you
    cant leave them without welfare net, you cant leave them without
    food stamps, you cant leave them without a home, and a phone
    and child care......

    For the majority of americans...they can no longer afford to go to
    work because they will take a cut in pay.

    My question for TDV is simple......when the federal debt payments
    take 75% of federal taxes......who will pay for the poor, and the
    middle class we have made poor ?????

    tdb
     
    #155
  16. TDVegas, Jul 31, 2017

    TDVegas

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    without significant changes...it may implode. There has to be changes. Fostering it's implosion by withholding payments is an utterly dumb idea, IMO. It will throw the entire system into chaos.

    I think deep down Trump has come to understand the difficulty and problems with healthcare and repealing ObamaCare is CERTAINLY not as easy as he thought. There is no "great plan" as he offered. It's just one less worse?...maybe? Maybe not?

    you can..as long as you accept the reality of it. A starving child is a tough one to sit by and watch. As I stated, you want to lock the emergency room doors...whatever. Do you want to solve it or Band-Aid it? My hospital in the suburbs of northern NJ 10 years ago...maybe 3-4 in the emergency room.

    Come to Vegas if you want to see today's reality....the hospital emergency rooms are like a line at Space Mountain in the summer...and none of them paid to get in. You want to solve that problem. Shut the doors. You want to keep it going? Open the doors. Personally, I think forced insurance is a great idea...but, there is a balance.

    I can accept the harsh reality of the situation...I don't want others saying "come on in" out one side of their mouth and "we can't fucking afford this" out the other. If they are sick and cannot pay....you need to say "sorry, go home". I walk into the Apple store. I would like a phone. I've got no money. They kick my ass out of there.

    a bit of hyperbole there...
    you work.

    I've called for a balance budget since I was 2. I balance my own. Can't get blood from a stone.

    Many of these issues are unsolvable. It's too far gone.

    SS is next in line to die...
    That was initiated by Ike.

    Should have NEVER tapped it. He set the precendent. He paid it back. Still, he set the precedent. Both parties are equally at fault. This is why I am an independent. I have no allegiance to either. Both screwed the pooch.
     
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  17. Jacob

    Jacob Administrator
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    It is a complex problem, but certainly not unsolvable. Universal healthcare (preferably single-payer) takes care of the uninsured issue.

    I think it's more of a cultural problem than anything. We need to eliminate the idea that all Americans have the right to the highest of the high end treatments. There is plenty of money to go around to cover everyone if we would pull back on these expectations a little bit.

    "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - John Steinbeck
     
    #157
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  18. TDVegas, Jul 31, 2017

    TDVegas

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    I am leaning that way...the nuclear option. Single payer.

    As long as the system treats people whether they can afford payment or not...it will always be in trouble. Here in Vegas...they KNOW they will be treated. The emergency rooms here have become pedatricians, GP's and place to go when your kid has the sniffles.

    Technology and the costs associated with wonderful cutting edge medical care have leap frogged the ability to afford it on a mass scale.

    I can't even step foot in an emergency room unless I first clear it with my insurance company. They are making the decision as to the "worthiness" of my issues requiring emergency care or "just go to an urgent care"...

    They have the option of "sending me the bill" if I ignore them or make a decision to go myself.
     
    #158
  19. badddoin, Jul 31, 2017

    badddoin

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    This has somehow turned into an intelligent conversation. Kudos!
     
    #159
  20. badddoin, Jul 31, 2017

    badddoin

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    United Healthcare has a market cap of 183B, with almost a billion shares outstanding. They're currently paying their investors roughly 3B a year in dividends. The value of their stock has doubled in 3 years. And, frankly, good on them, and I mean that.

    But don't tell me that they have my health as their top concern. 'Tain't so. They have a responsibility to their shareholders, as it should be. All the talk of the quality of service is just marketing to sell more widgets.

    Big pharma, the same thing.

    But these two entities are always included in discussions on healthcare policy.

    The same drug company that sells a hepC treatment in India for less than a thousand bucks charges American consumers $84,000.

    I say let these folks have a less prominent position at the negotiating table in the future. They flood our political system with cash (both sides) and the fallout is on us.

    I'm all for a single-payer, Medicare-for-all system. It's time. It won't be easy, and it won't be unclomplicated, but I think it's the only rational way foward.

    I've noticed that the people who object the loudest seem to be the folks who already get their helthcare from the government.
     
    #160
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