saving yourself from PSO

Discussion in 'Prop Bets & Side Bets' started by 514natural, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. CrapsGenius, Mar 10, 2014

    CrapsGenius

    CrapsGenius Member

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    easy answer to your question is:
    1) Too many players think too much.
    2) Everything sounds good on paper.
    3) Some things make you skeptical.
    4) Physically trying it will give you your answer for consistency.

    Maybe i'm just lucky that everytime I visit a craps table i guess?
     
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  2. SevenOut, Mar 10, 2014

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Liman... you need to "understand the force." ... as I don't.

    You mentioned the differences in rubber consistency for the "diamonds back wall".

    I had two Craps tables from the 1970's Dunes Casino. A 14 foot and a 12 foot. The Dunes layouts were getting a bit thin, so I bought two "seconds" layouts in Las Vegas from a supplier. The 12 foot had the most wear so I pulled the table apart (the "rails" are screwed to the 2 inch board that the layout is attached) and removed the layout. It had a dense matted cloth between the base board and cloth. I replaced it with a dense rubber about a half inch thick. The dice went from "thud" to "lively" with the change. I sold that table to a small Riverboat Casino (Catfish Junction River Boat? Missouri).

    When I wanted to update the 14 foot table I stretched the Dunes Casino layout and then took the new cloth and with three of us getting it aligned, tacked it. This changed the dice movement from the "thud" to a "lively bounce". Just stretching a high quality Craps cloth made the dice, lively, beyond any DC, DI and DS ambitions.

    My intent was just to have the Craps table layout looking "fresh" like the Roulette, Black Jack and Roulette layouts I had on hand. A Corporate Casino will change the layout cloths and silk screeners... not for the DI crowd... but to clean and/or update the logo, price, or changes for center betting options that come along from time to time. NO layout manufacturer in Las Vegas ever mentioned anything about the sub layout material intended to interfere with DI. It was to keep the layout from wearing out too quickly with the razor edge die's corners digging in and pulling threads.

    The diamond rubber IS to interfere with the motion and direction of one or both dies that make contact. Not because of DI, but to assure the other players at the table that the game is HONEST as are the dice AND to keep the dice from chipping on the corners. Maybe with the corners chipped it might create a .0000001 % bias... and dice are not inexpensive, they feel to cover all angles.

    Some of you might recall the stiched "ribbing" running along each end of the table, about three feet from the end to keep the "dice sliders" from their DI thoughts of riches. These seemed to last only a short time and probably was deemed of no importance and not utilized.

    Now some of you might claim that the sub layout material IS because the DIers are so competent in their control. Wrong. Black Jack tables also use the same material beneath their layouts. Without some kind of matting beneath the layout, it is difficult for the Dealer to pick the cards and chips off the layout. OK, roll your eyes. Try this... put a chip on the flat hard surface of a table and another with some padding underneath... Well. Now you are a believer.

    I never did replace the Roulette layout. One thing about Roulette players is they would see a loose thread and while playing... would pick and pull. After awhile you had a hole in the layout about the diameter of a pencil. We would take a green magic market to color the "pecking hole" to discourage the neurotic Roulette Players from plucking and picking. I still have the table at home. Roulette tables and wheels look nice. I do not care for the Roulette action as for me it is boring... but just looks nice next to a group of antique slot machines and a Wurlitzer Jukebox. I have a second antique wheel that is a great... dust collector. If I get my hands on a Lion Claw foot table it would make a good table to fold laundry. That is pretty much what the wife uses the current 10 foot table... with the Roulette pecker pits.
     
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  3. Southern-Comfort, Mar 10, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    DC, as CrapsGenius mentioned, is a myth. There is no anonymous Japanese businessman buried in the desert outside Vegas.
    DI does exist, but is a fringe group at best. A very few MAY be good enough to go professional. You will not find them at the $5 tables, if at all.
    DS is part of the fundamentals. Even if you don't make hardway bets, you should understand them, same with DS. My opinion of course.
    RT... I don't get the "holier than thou" attitude a lot of DI's have toward random tossers. As I've said soooo many times, there are two hour rolls. you will never see a DI roll two hours. Its always a randie. I don't want to miss out. I love random rollers and support them. I just bet lightly and increase with winnings if they come.
     
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  4. SevenOut, Mar 10, 2014

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    CrapsGenius (quote)
    1) Too many players think too much.
    2) Everything sounds good on paper.
    3) Some things make you skeptical.
    4) Physically trying it will give you your answer for consistency.

    Maybe i'm just lucky that everytime I visit a craps table i guess?
    ********
    (1) Not enough Craps Players THINK. Watch them at the table. There is your proof.
    (2) All of DI is on paper and made to sound good. Craps Math is on paper and it sounds... bad.
    (3) Agree....
    (4) I had six days a week to work on my Craps game on MY 14 foot table. My favorite size table. My opinion: If your System of playing Craps is not mathematically sensible... you will want to go back to point (1). There is NO System devised to be best used with DI. It is all hypothetical. And if the shooter loses... it was some outside interference.

    I would advise players to perfect a System that they can follow and is aggressive for a short time at a table. I would advise a player to be able to get your bets out onto the Come in the quickest time AND know how to get the attention of the Stickman and HOW to "spin" more than one chip into the Stickman's palm or if you and the Stickman are good... onto the top of his hand! The Stickman will spot a Player who can participate in the Three Ring Circus we call... CRAPS.

    added: And... while you are finished with making your wagers... look around the table and see the Players that the Casino's fleece every minute of the day. Then go back to point (1). Thinking before doing a wager that is outside your System is smart and is considered an impulse wager that usually is a loser ( those one roll center bets).
     
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    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  5. bek423, Mar 17, 2014

    bek423

    bek423 Member

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    Sounds like a great collection. I have one craps table, a 12 foot originally from The Mohegan Sun. Have fantsized about a jukebox and a roulette wheel and table. Some pinball machines would be good, too.
     
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  6. basicstrategy777, Mar 18, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    bek.....sounds like that would be a great place for a party.

    777
     
    #26
  7. SevenOut, Mar 18, 2014

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    bek... do not buy a Roulette wheel and table in Las Vegas, even a used one from the off the Strip suppliers, unless at a price comparable to EBay or an Antique Mall. They want way too much in Las Vegas... when EBay or some other source for 20% the cost. A full sized 34" wheel at $3,500 and an 8 foot table for $1800 is not a bad deal, wholesale. Retail... $8000 to $12,000. I paid $2,000 from an individual in Las Vegas and at Paulson's they wanted $25,000 for the same used older wheel. There are more wheels for sale than tables... because they look cool and the table took up too much space. There are two kinds of wheels. One sits into a table and the other sits on top. You are paying for the legs and trim on a table... so the older ones really look the nicest. Make sure the wheel spins easily on the ball bearing and has no veneer damage. A few dings is fine as when they carry them around they get dinged up. Do not waste your money on the smaller wheels, when a full sized is a much better investment.

    The Wurlitzer One more Time that looks like a 1946 Wurlitzer 1015, plays 45s or CD's has absolutely beautiful sound and the cabinet with bubble tubes and turning cylinders is an eye catcher. I was buying them in the carton from the Jukebox Collector in the 1980's and are very reliable. I like them with the coin system, but they are sold for less as a Free Play...

    Pinball machines. Local vendors sell their electronic machines shopped out and probably with a short warranty (which you would want). The pre digital are now getting expensive but Gottlieb are the most ingenious games. The back glass and game surface needs to be in excellent condition...

    I quit selling gameroom equipment over 20 years ago. Much has dropped in value due to fewer people having room for a Game Room. Mechanical slot machines from the pre 1940 era are plentiful and the 25 cent machines are very easy to maintain. Avoid 10 cent as they dimes can jam the machine if it is not a restored model.

    Be patient, study current prices and there are many good deals out there. Quality before price. I probably should start a thread on Game Room Equipment, but people's taste vary so much, like taste in cars, that it would be a massive undertaking.
     
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  8. bek423, Mar 22, 2014

    bek423

    bek423 Member

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    basic - If I have one, you will certainly be invited.
     
    #28
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  9. bek423, Mar 22, 2014

    bek423

    bek423 Member

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    Thanks for your thorough reply. I'm going to print it out and keep it for future reference.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014