Sand Pit Dice Shooting... not for amateurs

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by SevenOut, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. SevenOut, Dec 8, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    When I need a diversion from Craps, I prefer to dig around in our desert garden. As long as you water the Palms and fruit trees... they will grow. You can depend on that.

    No water... they are... toast. Set dice hitting the wall, or the surface of the table... are toast. But... please follow these thoughts.

    Now all of you Control Shooters with your cameras and proof that you have a 'pair of acetate testicles in hand', that a controlled shot can rotate, forever, through the air and stay within a predictable group of outcomes.

    OK. Sand Pit It. Professional Golfers do it... grab yours and do it. When either hit the sand pit... they are forever no longer in motion.

    Take the finest white Silicon Dioxide (SiO2) and step back three feet, six feet and for those with the rock solid acetate testicle... grip... eight or more feet. Vary the sand, if necessary. The oil companies use the finest sands, so you may have to settle for what is left.

    Instructions:

    - Set the two cubes of choice.
    - Give FOUR outcomes you are shooting for. (Maybe two outcomes for the best of the best.)
    - Specify a distance at your home made table or professional table with an eighteen inch wide, two inch deep sand trap at the opposite end. (Decrease the depth of the sand depending on the fineness and how the dice react.)
    - When the dice contact this fine sand, both will stop DEAD in its motion. Frozen in time and space.

    This is the absolute PROOF that Acetate Testicles or Acetate Dice can behave in the manner everyone suggests is possible, but cannot predict AFTER they make contact with something solid... an exact, unadulterated outcome of the pair of dice.

    Sand Pit Dice Shooting is the first PROOF that Dice Control and Dice Setting does have merit to discuss. Either it does, or does not.

    Now shoot the same from the Sand Pit end to the unsanded table end... and record and compare results after a predetermined number of tests.

    The DI's will not like this at all. Sand Pit Shooting outcomes are... EXACT. Control shooters will whine, that it is not the same. Of course not. This is how you can prove a part of the Theory of Dice Setting.

    The rest. Is pure speculation and no relationship between Dice Control Skill... or pure random luck.
     
    #1
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  2. lone irish digit, Dec 8, 2017

    lone irish digit

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    Nice idea Sevenout but you might be about twenty years late. DI's have been using this concept for years. At the homestead we use goat poop in an aluminium pan to see how the dice are landing. Other more conventional DI's use cat liter in the liter box on their tables. The trouble with cat liter is that the cat might jump on the table and screw up your toss while you are practicing similar to what happens to Mssthis1. I like goat poop better since my goats don't care where they poop and it records your dice landing just as well as cat liter. However, there are exceptions, I know one top notch Eastern DI that uses his new serta matrress to get similar dice landing outcomes.
     
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  3. James Hall, Dec 8, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Not too bad , right up to the last sentence
     
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  4. Settingcanthurt, Dec 8, 2017

    Settingcanthurt

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    Ya know this is a good idea. Cant hurt to test your toss. I'm thinking just use flour and water. You can get it to just the right consistancy where they will not bounce. Will just stick.
    I may sprinkle fresh flower on top to keep it dry and easier to clean the dice off. plus the flower on your fingers will slip the dice out easier.
    Just be sure and do not let any flower stay on the dice or you could be accused of loading them so care must be taken. Best part is after you are done. Get out the sugar and maybe some chocolate chips and your favorite cookie cutter...
     
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  5. $nakeEye$, Dec 9, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    7-Out -

    IF - ONE - takes WHAT you prescribe AND takes it to the NEXT LEVEL -

    There is NOTHING to PREVENT your shot from exhibiting the EXACT SAME RESULTS that are achieved in SAND as on the TABLE !

    NOTHING - EXCEPT - YOUR OWN INHIBITIONS / LACK of CONFIDENCE, etc. -



    There is NOTHING - MORE BEAUTIFUL - in craps - than to shoot from SO on a 12' table and the dice land at the juncture of the base rubber and the felt -

    And THEN - STOP and DROP - WITHOUT the ROLL !


    THIS is something that YOU - ASSUME - is NOT possible -

    However, it IS something which IS achievable ROUTINELY -

    WITH - " PROPER " Practice !


    And THIS is the " Voice of Experience " which is talking to you now -

    NOT some BS hype - OR - " CONJECTURE " as some " Numerates " states -

    Been there, Done it and Doing it !


    $...eE..$

     
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  6. SevenOut, Dec 9, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I have never been invited to watch a practice session of Dice Control. A 'Golden Touch' instructor lived in the neighborhood I had lived, and would not even return my telephone calls. I had said that I had operated a Dealer classroom and Player classroom for several years.

    I have never been invited to actually watch anyone, at any time, to participate in a one to one or group Dice Control.

    I have been invited to a 12 foot table at a Casino in Nevada to... 'watch' and to arrive at a particular time. When I arrived... early... this group was playing and warming up their control.

    Romans loved loaded dice 2,000 years ago. They practiced dice control in the sands of the Middle East to divide the property of a great religious figure. So all of you are much too late to say you invented... anything, other than expand on very old technology. Before this... the Chinese have all of us looking like new comers.

    When ever some kind of alternative is tossed out, the same group of 'mother defending' their 'child', i. e. Dice Control, come out of the wood work to defend a non functioning technique.

    I do not make any assumptions. It is direct observation of out comes.

    IF anyone could demonstrate two things, I would be the first to say... mea culpa.

    (1) Predict what outcomes are expected with their dice setting
    (2) Wager at the table at a level that would indicate confidence of these outcomes.

    I have seen neither. There is nothing more beautiful than a baseball crossing the plate at 95mph. There is nothing more beautiful than the arc of a football to a receiver. Skill developed from practice and obvious. I have seen it live and in person.

    Dice Chucking I have seen live and in person.

    Dice Control... neither. That does not make me, or others, liars, cheats and ignoring reality. The reality is... I, an experienced Craps Dealer and Player have no personal experience through observation of anything that indicates, any one, having an edge at the Craps Table in my... lifetime.

    Missouri is the Show Me State. No body could show me anything, then. Or now. Do not be critical of the messenger, be critical on how you deliver the message to those who are observing.
     
    #6

  7. Liman

    Liman Member

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    that's the problem with the di community.
    they all claim how great it is but as of right now, Ive yet to see one di bet the table with the confidence anyone with real skill would bet

    di community ignores everyone elses experiences.
     
    #7
  8. Mssthis1, Dec 9, 2017

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    Make sure you don't feed your goat any corn. The dice won't stay "glued together" with a kernel of corn between them.
     
    #8
  9. SevenOut, Dec 9, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I must add that there is a 'Theory of Dice Setting' existing. It is logical. It makes sense.

    It is the Delivery, Outcome and Wagering of DI that has some rough edges. The rough edges are usually cursing and insulting reactions to what they consider... obvious. Talk about poor Public Relations. You don't insult a potential customer into wanting to participate in the 'parade'. This I never could under stand.

    Many set dice before they shoot. They are not Dice Influencers. They set and shoot random. It is just a formality of their game. Watching a number of Craps Games is like taking a class to understand the player's themselves. I need no practice to Win or Lose at a Craps Table. It is insult to an injury that has no cure.

    There are also theories about 'Time Travel'. If it were true, someone would be telling us about it in person.

    If Dice Control requires an empty table, Las Vegas tables are to be avoided. They are full of Craps Chuckers and chronic gamblers with money to spend, and no skills. If a DI only wagers on himself and other in the group, the Craps Table staff will spot you out immediately. You are cutting into their 10 to 12 potential player's cash pool exposed to the table.

    When posts deviate from the subject, it debases any serious discussion on this Forum. It if not funny to lose money when gambling. The degenerates lose and then curse the dealers and claim they are somehow cheating... them personally. While others may be profiting from their outcomes. Most DI's, if not all play the PASS Game. Watch a game and you can determine what would have changed the wins or losses for each game. Only then... you are competent enough to go into 'skill shooting' and not before. Most players wager like fools.
     
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  10. Mssthis1, Dec 9, 2017

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    OK,OK, I'll get serious for a post. Sand box shooting isn't going to show you much. There's many times where my dice look pretty in the air and then veer to the right after landing because I rolled my wrist slightly, my second most common toss fault. A sand box shot will only show that if it was severe. Using new dice to practice with on something that mimics a real table as much as possible will make it obvious.

    Tossing into a sand box would be good to develop muscle memory for distance control.
     
    #10
  11. SevenOut, Dec 9, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Thank you Mssthis1.

    Your post gave me another idea for a Thread....
     
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  12. Liman

    Liman Member

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    all craps boards exist for the di community.
    they need a place to convince others they have skill
    The internet chat boards are a necessity for dice instructors, di schools, teachers, (scammers) etc....

    without the internet, dice influencing would be a try it once, why did I waste my fucking time event.

    I do enjoy reading seven out and his keen insight of this game being he was a dealer for many years.

    But I also feel many don't value his opinions or at least brush them off simply because the lure of riches from DI has polluted their view of reality at dice tables. and none want to listen to anyone who might suggest otherwise.(my opinion only,)

    There is nothing wrong with dice setting or attempting to alter dice outcomes in ones favor.
    but everyone should be realistic as to the true results and not only look at it as yeah, it works for me, only when it works, and not make excuses when it doesn't work.
     
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  13. Mssthis1, Dec 9, 2017

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    I appreciate his insight also.

    I also appreciate having fun with tossing sarcasm at sarcasm.

    I feel that DI is an individuals choice. It doesn't matter to me whether you believe in it or not.

    I agree with sevenout that most people who believe in DI don't know how to bet. If I was 100 percent confident in my ability, I'd lay the six or eight for $5400, toss a seven, cash out, give the pass line bet to the dealers and go home.
     
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  14. tabletop123, Dec 9, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Yep, ya got that shit right! I TRULY wish that I would have spent my ten years doing something more productive. Doesn't make sense to possess a skill that MIGHT work, or might not!

    If it doesn't work, ya just walk away? How the fu**k is THAT considered a skill? Lol. Ya weren't trained properly! Ya ain't doing it right! Lol.

    When it works....."See, that's influence. When it doesn't work.....I didn't get enough sleep last night! I keep twisting my wrist. My grip doesn't feel right, etc.

    Tell ya what.....when I toss the dice in the Casinos, I am looking for every reason to "Walk"! Spend the least amount of time at the table as possible. Face it......no matter how ya spin it, Craps is designed to relieve you of your money!

    When ya win a bet, the Casino shares in your winnings ( Silent partner, the Vig), & when ya lose a bet they take it all.
    Ya better get a TON of training, coaches, second set of eyes, classes, refresher courses, etc......Cause you're gonna need it, & it's STILL not gonna be enough.

    The Casinos........BAD ASSES!

    James Pre-post reply: Top, the more that I read your posts the more that I think that you are confused. On the fence. Uncertain about Dice Influencing.

    Top: "Nope, James.....I'm just pretty smart......for a Dumb Ass!

    James: Top, I still have a slot open for ya to practice with the Mesa Gang.
    Top: Thanks, but no thank ya James......my table in the Garage is just fine.

    James: LEARN TO WIN OR QUIT!
    Top: "Okay"!
     
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  15. tabletop123, Dec 9, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Yep! Good post! No one is 100% confident in their Dice Influencing ability. Ya toss the dice with a perfect/near perfect release to a specific spot, & then the initial table contact & the pyramids scrambles that "beauty", & says: Okay, THIS is what I'm gonna give ya!

    Sometimes it's good! Sometimes it's bad! Mechanics can be perfected. Favorable results? Not so much!
     
    #15
  16. James Hall, Dec 9, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    And then- stop and drop- without the roll!
    that is the thing that sets the DI apart from the dice setters
     
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  17. SevenOut, Dec 9, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Snake Eyes highlighted red on Post #16... is 100% correct. I have never said anything different. The sand pit is meant to freeze the action after contact with the table. I have NO disagreement. The disagreement comes with the E=MC2 of impact. I see no mention of where this Dice Grip Energy is absorbed, without tumbling.

    I have NO disagreement that one controlled shot can be followed by others. There is no one with a way to say this is 100% or 0% possible. I am not a palm reader, forehead reader or follow the dice as they tumble after a shot.

    As James Hall said, or I believe was said.: Dice Setters can be ALL of us.

    Dice Influencing is not the same. I concede that these are two entirely different Dice Concepts.

    What gets me... inspired... is anyone on this Forum being spoken to as, if one is not part of the established group... you are a moron, or worse... a novice Craps Player. If it be SuperRick, SnakeEyes or LID, who is much more creative than I.

    Several years ago I explored other sites to discover it was all the same. DI and Dice Control. The mathematics of a System have been pretty much ironed out. Stupid is, Stupid does, and we cannot avoid those individuals. They defend themselves by quoting the big wins, while I have to yet to win big at anything. Getting five points on a Fire Bet I have watched... and the shooter was, of course... a Dice Chucker.

    The 'math guys' must be working for the Gambling Anonymous groups. They argue that you are a fool to play any form of gambling. Well, count me as also the Fool. There is an immediate getting away from that crowd, as well. I prefer the DI group to them, any day, or time of day!
     
    #17
  18. James Hall, Dec 9, 2017

    James Hall

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    When done as nearly perfect as is possible , the velocity of the throw the arc thereof and the angle at which the dice come into contact with the table surface
    are such that the amount of energy required to facilitate such an outcome is not that great
    The velocity is slow enough that not a great deal of friction from the table surface is required to
    nearly halt forward motion ,resulting in the dice hitting as Snakeeyes described and coming to a nearly dead stop
    Results from this type of throw will have the dice coming to rest , 6 or 8 inches
    from the pyramids and remaining 6 or 8 inches apart
     
    #18
  19. TDVegas, Dec 9, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    That bullshit "line" has been going on here long before I and other randies arrived...that's for certain.

    10 minutes with a person who has never played before is all I need to bring them up to par with the 50 year so called "legend"...

    Now within the dice influencers themselves (if one so believes)...one can certainly say "I put my money where my mouth is by betting large". He will hold "rank" over the red chip DI player or the guy playing some 50-60 years and still bets $42 across.
     
    #19
  20. James Hall, Dec 9, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    This is part of the misconception that creates problems for the novice player
    The $1 machine player gets on here and starts spouting about playing $5 one or two low HA bets
    with intent to win and some of these poor newbies will fall for that and get sucked into the
    same mess the $1 machine player subscribed to and and is stuck in
    "THAT WRONG GAME"
    Avoid the , "WRONG GAME" at all cost
     
    #20
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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