remember the dealers are people too

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by The Midnight Skulker, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. The Midnight Skulker, Sep 18, 2018

    The Midnight Skulker

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,539
    Likes Received:
    3,108
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    The forum seems to be in "resourceful" mode today (and yesterday) so I thought I would take advantage of this window of opportunity to bring back a blast from Usenet past I stumbled upon while looking for something else. I apologize for 1) the content as it is somewhat relevant to craps, 2) the antiquity of the source thread -- November 2-7, 1996, in the rec.gambling.craps newsgroup on a thread with the same subject as this one -- and 3) the creation of a portal for the LTWOQers to wow us some more with their wackers. Being as I was responding to a post I am including it as well.
    This is certainly a possibility, but I have another theory: house personality. In my experience casinos "market" their games in one of three ways.
    1. They sell fun. While you are at the table you will have a good time; when you leave the table the fun is over.
    2. They sell respect. While you are the table you will be treated as an honored member of the gambling community; when you leave the table you will revert back to being a nobody.
    3. They don't sell anything but rather challenge you to prove to them that you are a player and not just some dweeb looking for a free drink. Presumably (because I have never heard the conditions for such proof defined) the only way you can do this is to defeat them by "breaking the bank", which of course is impossible; if the table runs out of chips they just bring more.
    I play to relax and enjoy, hence I gravitate towards and return to houses using Strategy 1. I have found Strategy 2 to be quite popular in (and excuse the pun) the Las Vegas Strip joints, and I suggest the complacency the Ceasar's dealers displayed might well have been an air of professionalism: "We know what we're doing, you know what you're doing, so let's do it." Houses using Strategy 3, by far the least common, apparently believe that taking red necks to the cleaners makes up for alienating players who limit their losses.


    Back to the subject of dealers I suggest they have three duties to perform at the table. First and most obvious, run the game, the old take-pay-place routine.

    Second, generate action. Every dollar that touches the felt adds revenue. More action = more revenue. This is primarily the job of the stickperson (e.g. "How much on eleven now?", "Plenty of room on the hardways."), but dealers on the bases also do this. An experienced dealer will remember my typical action under certain circumstances and will ask, for example, "5, 6, and 8 for 34?" when I get a point of 4. (Such a query actually exterminates a pair of avians with a single granite projectile, making his/her boss happy by generating action while making me happy by reminding to do what I might have forgotten to do.) I would put answering players' questions in this category as well.

    Third, make the session a positive experience for the player. You probably will not find this one in any dealer's handbook, but I contend it is as important as the other two and is in fact a long-term approach to generating action. I return to houses where my goal of having fun was met and I avoid houses where it was not. (The highest compliment I think a dealer can be paid is to have a departing player say, "I lost but I still had fun." I of course prefer to be able to say, "I didn't lose but I had fun anyway.") A player looking for respect will return to houses where he/she got it and avoid houses where he/she did not. (The red neck returns for revenge and so the dealer's job in houses using Strategy 3 above is to make the experience negative.) Furthermore, I contend it is in the dealers' best interest to give the players what they are looking for: the tokes are better.
     
    #1
  2. twodicebilly, Sep 18, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    midnight


    What is the player called when he is at a table where he or she is not treated
    with respect.....is that player then still a red neck or is there a name you would
    call the crew.....


    tdb
     
    #2

  3. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,393
    good dealers are plentiful.
    they know your game, they respect you, they are courteous, remind you if you forget odds or if your making the horn bets, etc.
    good dealers always have a much better game flow.

    I find shitty dealers now and then, I ignore their attitudes unless they really are fucking up my payouts or I have to remind them hey, thats my bet.

    shitty dealers dont get tipped.

    good crews get tipped even if I lose. Ill always toss in a red or whatever whites I have if Ive had enough and Im losing. They are doing their job and they are doing it well, it isnt their fault Im losing.

    I used to have dealers tell me, you can go to your room, and Ill keep making your bets, come down after a nap.
     
    #3
    yacraps, HornHiYo and Twelve4s like this.
  4. Twelve4s, Sep 18, 2018

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    5,936
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Gender:
    Male
  5. The Midnight Skulker, Sep 18, 2018

    The Midnight Skulker

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,539
    Likes Received:
    3,108
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    I can only guess at what you are asking. I presume you are referring to Strategy 3 above, but that defined an overall marketing strategy that targeted rednecks. I guess I'd call a disrespectful crew "disrespectful"; it's for damn sure they'd be "tokeless".

    As for a player who stayed at a table where he/she was getting the Rodney Dangerfield treatment I would venture the label "tolerant", or in the only case I remember being so treated, "winning". Tropicana, Las Vegas, 40 or so years ago. I have to think Dimitri was having personal issues -- maybe he was being forced to work overtime when he had other plans -- for all previous visits had been pleasant. I was not being singled out; he was giving everybody what for as a group. "Who in their right mind would be at a craps table at 3am?" On several occasions he tested the tensile strength of the stick by banging it on the table as hard as he could. On other occasions he sent the dice to the shooter by off the opposite wall. OK, that is an (ever so slight) exaggeration, but shooters waiting for them quickly learned to keep their hand out of the line of fire. The harangues on player intelligence continued as he moved around the table. It took only a few losing bets to convince me to move on.
     
    #5
    yacraps and Twelve4s like this.
  6. Mssthis1, Sep 18, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    2,199
    The vast majority of dealers are good. I would probably not be a good dealer because I'd have problems dealing with the obnoxious and drunk players. When a guy who has been playing craps for decades constantly makes splash bets, string bets and late bets that isn't the dealers fault. The guy who tries to drop a wad of wadded dollar bills onto the table while the dice were out would get a stick to the knuckles from me.

    With that being said the dealers at Ceasars in Las Vegas are a special breed. If you like a nice leisurely pace of 50 rolls an hour or want to watch "walking the dog" or manipulating to get the last 20 off, taken to an art form, that is the joint you want to go to.
     
    #6
    yacraps and Twelve4s like this.
  7. Twelve4s, Sep 18, 2018

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    5,936
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Gender:
    Male
    Liman might appreciate this dealer’s use of the word, fucktard

    [​IMG]Quote
    Like
    diceninja
    13

    Member
    November 6th, 2006, 7:29 am #9

    Pet peeves on a dice game? there's so many...
    Late bettors.
    People who make improper bets and get mad when I can't figure out their retarded ideas. 27 across? bet. 49 inside? no bet. Oh, you meant 44 inside, including the point, high 9. that's a bet. fucktard.
    Boxmen or base dealers who try to figure out complicated prop box payoffs out loud. especially when they're not doing it in english, and they get the wrong fucking number.
    Grouchy old fuckers. I was always taught to respect my elders. after dealing with these jerkoffs for a few years, most of my elders can kiss my entire white ass. Grouchy old people suck
    Players who are convinced that they're system or method of play is the best and/or only way to play the game. If they teach others, they are even worse.
    Micro tippers. Win: $10,000. Tip you: $2. Keep it, please.
    Anyone who has ever said to me, "you have a bad attitude". Fuck off. Let's see how your attitude is when i show up at your work, break all your rules, blame you for it, and treat you like a farm animal.
    Bosses who won't give me an E.O. in craps because there's a big player coming, and "we need strong dealers". Oh yeah, then the next day, they schedule me to deal blackjack, and some extraboard rookie is dealing craps. WTF
    Boxmen who do jack shit. IF a beef comes up, wake up and fucking try to fix it. Don't just sit there if i'm in some argument with a player. either tell the player to shut up, or tell me to shut up. I hate worthless boxmen.
    Rookie dealers who say "I knew that" every time they blow a payoff. Or, they have an excuse for every mistake/blow procedure. no one cares. just fix it and move on. we were all break ins once
    Suits who have to be right just because they're in a suit. We're all people. I may be in black in whites, but you fuck up plenty. Just admit it every once in a while. I admit it when I make mistakes.
    Players who bet a horn, world, C & E, and/or 3-way craps all at once. Just bet a god damn $25 world or something.
    Players who start barking payoffs and press moves before it's their turn. 16 people fit around a dice table. STFU, i'll get to you when i'm good and ready, and barking numbers and pointing your finger is a good way to make me slow down
    Players who ask, "is this right?" if you made some stroke bet like 185 odds when the point is 6, and you don't like my payoff, you need to either know what it pays and tell me, or bet 200 odds like a normal person. Otherwise, yes, $222 is the right payoff on your dumb stroke bet. FOAD.
    Stick dealers who ask, "is that right?" when i'm on base. see above. If i'm wrong, tell me how to fix it. I'll cut out the extra checks and send it. If you're not sure, figure it out somewhere else besides a live game.
    Boxmen who know less than me trying to bust my balls. I deal a clean game with very few shortcuts, and I stick pretty close to procedure. I have no problem with going through the come, or using my outside hand, or whatever. But if you tell me this shit, you better be able to tap me out and show me the right way. Don't talk shit cuz you're sitting in that little seat.
    Good lord, the list goes on and on. This just scratches the surface.
     
    #7
    TDVegas and yacraps like this.
  8. James Hall, Sep 18, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    11,760
    Likes Received:
    1,951
    Gender:
    Male
    What would these guys do if they
    had to really work for a living ??
     
    #8

  9. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,393
    obviously there are alot of fuctards who think they know it all when it comes to craps, even the dealers use the word.
     
    #9
  10. James Hall, Sep 18, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    11,760
    Likes Received:
    1,951
    Gender:
    Male
    obviously a word used by many of that socioeconomic
    class , a couple more years of high school
    could have prevented that sort of thing.
     
    #10
  11. von duck, Sep 19, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,545
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Gender:
    Male
    KABONG! :D
     
    #11
    James Hall likes this.
  12. twodicebilly, Sep 19, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    midnight


    My point is rather simple.....I have seen some very good dealers and I have seen some real bad dealers, I have
    seen honest dealers and then I have seen some very dishonest dealers like at one of the Casino's in Laughlin.

    I have seen dealers comment constantly when a person sets the dice, I have even had a pit boss come over
    and holler that when I see Frank I should tell him that shit does not work anyway. I have had the stickman lean so
    far over the table that you could not throw done the line properly, I had one lady stickman stink so bad that you had to stand on
    table end.... I have had them not pay me or others properly if they were not tipped.

    OK..... we all know what players are like, many have no respect for anyone, yet alone the crew, they come to the table in
    the middle of a good roll and throw their money all over the table, they piss and moan if you dont have a good roll, they
    they holler at the dont player, not nearly enough bother to tip the dealers, even a dollar....that's life. I guess....

    So in the end dealing is a damn hard job, dealers should not make decent players pay for the bad players they see and
    decent dealers should not pay the price for the bad dealers out there....

    tdb
     
    #12
    James Hall likes this.
  13. TDVegas, Sep 19, 2018

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    14,270
    Likes Received:
    7,308
    We've got some of those curmudgeons here.
     
    #13
    yacraps, Twelve4s and Mssthis1 like this.
  14. Mssthis1, Sep 19, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    2,199
    Using the word fuctard is acquired from being exposed to an area with too high a concentration of fuctards for too long a period of time.

    For various reasons craps tables seem to be fuctard magnets.

    I prefer a more refined phrase. I call them Dickwads.
     
    #14
    yacraps and Twelve4s like this.
  15. James Hall, Sep 19, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    11,760
    Likes Received:
    1,951
    Gender:
    Male
    We have far more , "YOUNG WHIPPER SNAPPERS"
    here than curmudgeons.
    One thing in favor of the whipper snappers is they
    know they don't know everything , they know
    they will never know everything , because most
    know NOTHING and they really don't care and
    they are certainly not going to expend any effort
    to learn . Having said that , allow me to hastily
    add , not all whipper snappers are alike , some of
    them do make an effort to learn , so let's help them
    along the way.
     
    #15
  16. James Hall, Sep 19, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    11,760
    Likes Received:
    1,951
    Gender:
    Male
    I still maintain that many who suffer these deficiencies
    would have been better served by remaining in
    high school till they graduated
     
    #16

  17. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,393

    Im not bragging, but I have shown)posted a while back the licenses in Nevada) that Im licensed (well, was licensed) in three different states to practice pharmacy. I know its a bit hard for someone of your advanced years to comprehend that even though pharmacy is a very non exciting profession, it does mean I not only completed high school, but 5 years of college and then took state boards in 3 states and passed all three.

    now, again, Im not bragging, pharmacy is a very non exciting profession, although it did make me quite wealthy by todays standards, so Im not complaining.

    none of this means anything in regards to the word fuctard.

    its just a perfect way to describe you.

    a condescending lying sack of shit person who has little or no respect for anyone unless they 100% agree with you.

    its 1:45, isn't it time to change your depend old man?
     
    #17

  18. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    5,393

    I used to say fucking retards, but my daughter used to get mad at me if she heard me say that. I ask her, why, the F word upsets you, shed say no, but retard is not a nice word, its not used anymore, . so fuctard seemed to work well.
     
    #18
    yacraps, Twelve4s and Mssthis1 like this.

  19. FredP

    FredP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,169
    Likes Received:
    637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Northern NJ, Clinton area
    Way to go IMAN!
     
    #19
    Mssthis1 likes this.
  20. James Hall, Sep 19, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    11,760
    Likes Received:
    1,951
    Gender:
    Male
    Guess what somebody is about to do when
    he begins a statement with , I'm not lying or
    I'm not bragging . EXACTLY.
    Guess what happens when they reinforce
    the not bragging statement??? EXACTAMOONDO.
    "I'm not lying , I'm not bragging but I am rich" LOL LOL
    You don't disagree with me
    you just don't know any better. .
    You seem to intensely dislike older people
    so I hope if you find old age to be such a bad thing ,
    and you seem to desire to be spared that
    eventuality for your sake I hope you are
    spared that burden , there are of course
    ways you could preclude advancing
    any closer to that inevitability .
    If your wish is to grow no older
    I sincerely hope your wish is granted .
    You know what I mean right??

    What ever pleases you just
    tickles me plumb to death





     
    #20