Recording Rolls

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by Dr Monkey, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Dr Monkey, Feb 19, 2012

    Dr Monkey

    Dr Monkey Member

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    Is a player allowed to write down what he throws each roll? I've never seen anyone do it.

    What is the best way to do it? I was thinking of getting a small notepad, about the size of a index card. is it foolish to do?
     
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  2. Hardeight, Feb 19, 2012

    Hardeight

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    Of course they can...I should start doing it too.
     
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  3. TheStoic, Feb 20, 2012

    TheStoic

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    I like to grab a Roulette scorecard on my way to the Craps table. This way I don't have to carry excess papers with me on the way to the casino. But be prepared to have some 'verbal' shots taken at you (by other players and dealers/supervisors), just smile and say 'thanks'.

    TheS
     
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  4. cf410

    cf410 Member

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    I don't know why you would not be able to write down your rolls. I've seen two different people at the local casino just hang out at the tables recording results.

    However what is the data you're trying to capture? If you're a controlled shooter you have to make note of your table position, dice set, result for left and right die, how it hit, hardway, and maybe a few other factors.

    If you're a random roller, its easier. Just note the results and if it was a hardway.

    As for what to record in, I carry around Moleskines for various purposes. One of them is my gambling journal. I mark down the table I play at, what I buy in for, what I leave with, and anything notable about the game.

    For craps in particular I've started to note how many rolls I go before I'm out. Anything notable about my or other people's rolls like hitting parlayed hardways, multiple yo's in a row, and oddities that may have occurred. After the session I write notes about how I was feeling during each time I had the dice.
     
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  5. Fase Vir, Feb 21, 2012

    Fase Vir

    Fase Vir Member

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    I have been recording craps data for ayear now. I have been following my own rolls to see my own performance, which has improved from 5.9 seven rolls ratio to 6.19. (1 in 6.19 rolls have I rolled 7.) Also ,I am tracking four systems of craps play. My analysis has revealed that in along run (589 Hours of Play) I found a combination of 4 four systems played at the same time gave me the best results. Following are the systems: First after a point is establshed take two cosecutive dont come bets, Second take a place bet on 6 after apoint is established. Third Take place bets on 6 and 8 after 4rolls are roled. Fourth If the shooter makes o point take passline bet. These are four systems. Next is how to deal with losses or profits. 1. on the first DC bets do not change the plan continue reapeting the same play. Second place 6 bet use Oskers grind method-- Which is if you loose take same bet in the next roll until you win after the win increase your bet by one unit. Third: take down 6 or 8 (that you bet after 4rolls) after a win. Fourth: increase your passline bet after every win by one unit unitll you loose. I have astudy income of $15 to $25 per hour by taking $10 +$10 on DC, $12 on 6, $12 on 6 and 8 each and $10 on passline. These are starting bets. Total starting bets equal:$66, therefore I set Bankroll of $660 per session and loss limit of $200. Win goal of $150 @ close to 20% of bank roll. So far I have reached loss limit only 3 times and I stopped playing. This is very very important to have control on stopping when your loss limit is reached. Individulay each system has reaveled its own way of working. I have charted these four systems and I refer to these charts all the time. My findings first system requires patience and it works in a very slow speed. Second system is the best it moves very rapidly upword. Third system gives you a study upwrd movement and the fourth gives you fast upword movement. I have all numbers documentd, and systems tested over and over many times. I feel very good about my findings. If you like I can share all this with anyone. I just have hard time putting all this data in the comuter. I hope this helps, I would love to share your experiances. Thanks
     
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  6. DeMango, Feb 22, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Fase Vir;
    What you need to do is get a program for recording craps rolls. This applies if you are recording right die, left die. I suggest Bone Tracker, but others are available. For your results to make any sense they have to be same set, grip, delivery, table, landing zone, and table position. This way you measure results and have the ability to change sets to get different results. It's not easy and 99.99% will not, which has included me.
     
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  7. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Feb 22, 2012

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Yeah i track my rolls/wins/losses on a small notebook. Only way to get real time table vs your shot data. Pisses the house off, esp. when you are winning.


    they would rather a drunk with 200 bucks just betting all over the table and throwing the dice as hard as possible up against the back wall.
     
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  8. Hardeight, Feb 22, 2012

    Hardeight

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    You might as well have something to while people are getting their bets confused.
     
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  9. dustedone, Feb 22, 2012

    dustedone

    dustedone Member

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    DeMango,
    Electronic devices are not allowed at the gaming tables. But I have seen numerous people track the dice w/ pen and paper. When I lived in Henderson, NV, I played alot at the Joker s Wild on Boulder Hwy. There was a black guy that spend hours compiling data on the game. He never stepped up to the table and played, just scribbled on his notepad for days on end...

    I finally asked him one day what was going on. I mean you could see he was tracking the tables play. He replied, "This is my hobby." I told him fishing is a hobby, needle point is a hobby, even mathmatics is a hobby. But, to stand day after day recording the outcomes on the craps table... I can think of better things to do w/ my life.
     
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  10. $nakeEye$, Feb 23, 2012

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    H8 -

    Not " jumping " on you -

    Your response was apropos to my next question -

    As most on this board have the belief / inclination that the toss / roll of the dice is random -

    And can not be influenced - either by setting to a certain dice set -

    Or by a controlled throw -

    My question is succinctly this -

    WHY and / or FOR WHAT PURPOSE would any of you mental midgets waste your time time tracking RANDOM RESULTS ?
     
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  11. dustedone, Feb 23, 2012

    dustedone

    dustedone Member

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    $nakeEye$ is right.

    I mean, say you find the magic rabbit hole. You gonna stand around the table waiting for the rabbit hole to appear. I don t know what one would find with random data? And at what point do you put it to work in your advantage?

    I can understand of someone tracking their play. I have always wonder in a control if I tracked my $4 2-way hopping five; what the out come would be if I didn t, did or tried something esle. The game is so fast at times, that even if w/ years of playing and hours of practice, I miss wagers at times that cost me money at the table. I couldn t take time to scribble on a piece of paper. I would have to have someone track my play. This person would have to have the same knowledge, passion, and will as me; that they themselves are going to want to play anyhow.

    So, unless I know someone in sercurity that could get me a copy of CC of me playing. I m not going to look for some kind of streak/edge on the complied data of the out come on the dice.

    The odds NEVER change on the roll of the dice; and the odds of the game give the house advantage over the player based on the outcome of the dice. And true, they are not exact odds; even if they were, the shmucks that just play the PASS LINE would still lose.
     
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  12. bestdj, Jun 17, 2013

    bestdj

    bestdj Member

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    I play a slow don't grind but with $25 bets, my target is $200 win and a $500 loss limit. Usually never come close to the loss limit. As anyone that has played craps for any length of time knows, whether you believe it or not, tables go through streaks, some hot, some cold and some choppy. Most tables are choppy and by tracking how long I have been at the table and where my bankroll is at any given moment I can determine if I should get off the table early, or hang in there longer to scrape more profit off the table. If the table is "flowing" normally, I can easily hit my $200 target in 4 hours. Although I enjoy the game, I don't play for the excitement of it, I play for a profit and in my last 24 out of 25 outings, I have profitted. I have to also admit to playing the metaphysical card as well, that is, not playing against certain shooters or playing cautiously against an unknown. Again, I can hear those monthly crap players out there, "It's a random game!" Or is it?
     
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  13. The Comeback Kid, Jun 17, 2013

    The Comeback Kid

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    I'm curious about your statement: I have to also admit to playing the metaphysical card as well. I believe craps is a game of intuition, feelings, momentum. Could you expand upon the "metaphysical card".
     
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  14. $nakeEye$, Jun 17, 2013

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    bestdj -

    " Random Game " OR not -

    Depends - on THE shooter -

    One NEVER knows what another is THINKING -

    However - if ONE looks at another's hands - --

    ONE can readily tell if the SHOOTER knows what he / she is doing -

    Does the shooter take deliberate actions withh the dice -

    OR - does the shooter toss as presented by the stick -

    OR - worse - yet - does the shooter shake, rattle and fling the dice down the runway ?

    YOU tell ME -

    Is the ' game ' Random or Not ' ??????????

    $...eE..$


    [quote author="bestdj" date="1371512268"]I play a slow don't grind but with $25 bets, my target is $200 win and a $500 loss limit. Usually never come close to the loss limit. As anyone that has played craps for any length of time knows, whether you believe it or not, tables go through streaks, some hot, some cold and some choppy. Most tables are choppy and by tracking how long I have been at the table and where my bankroll is at any given moment I can determine if I should get off the table early, or hang in there longer to scrape more profit off the table. If the table is "flowing" normally, I can easily hit my $200 target in 4 hours. Although I enjoy the game, I don't play for the excitement of it, I play for a profit and in my last 24 out of 25 outings, I have profitted. I have to also admit to playing the metaphysical card as well, that is, not playing against certain shooters or playing cautiously against an unknown. Again, I can hear those monthly crap players out there, "It's a random game!" Or is it?[/quote]
     
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  15. mycoalsmith, Jun 18, 2013

    mycoalsmith

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    I'm a "tracker". I first got the idea when I was up at Salamanca NY and saw an older guy with an index card and pen. Then I read about some people keeping track of rolls, so I started doing it.
    But I have bad eyes, so not wanting to wear my glasses and looking over them to see the action of the table, I just take my 8 1/2" X 11" 70 page notebook with me.

    When I walk up to a table, I usually "track" everybody's rolls. I write down dice throw they do. It does get confusing though. Some people only stay a few rolls and leave, and the majority of people will change at a table when you are there tracking for 2 or 3 hours. I usually write down "Green shirt" and then record the rolls.

    I can't say it's helped me as of yet, but when a person is there for several hours and you see what they throw, it does influence my betting. If I've been tracking a certain person for a while and have a list of their rolls, when the dice come to them again, I scan the lines. "Hmmmm. . . . . I see a 9 on almost every roll before they either 7'd out or made the point." I'll put money on the 9.

    I also use it to look before they roll. If they mostly have 7'd out before getting their point, I'll play the don'ts. If they usually throw a 7 on the come out roll, I'll play the pass line once. If it's a 7 or 11, I'll take my win. Depending on if they 7 out or make their point more often determines if I leave my initial bet on the line or pick it up and wait for the next shooter.

    The crew usually watches for a short time, and when they see I'm keeping track of everything they might start "teasing a bit". "That's an awful big book! What is the next roll going to be?" It's sometimes made the game more fun with the joshing I get. But I have gotten some snide comments from the pit boss every now and then. I ignore and keep on tracking.

    Most of the players just let me do my thing. Every once in a while someone will ask - "That was a nice roll before they 7'd out. How many 8's did they throw?" or "How many numbers did they throw?"
     
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  16. DeMango, Jun 18, 2013

    DeMango

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    That's what I enjoy about Snakeeyes. I mean why use a flyswatter, when a sledge hammer is available?
     
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  17. SevenOut, Jun 18, 2013

    SevenOut

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    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. This is suppose to be fun, not a mathematical pursuit to finding an answer to the mystery of dice control. Have a disinterested friend do the note taking. Why make this opportunity to keep your mind on the game as a secondary objective?

    Even Roulette players think there is something to watching what has been hit and not... the Casino provides this for FREE.

    Some day the Casino may do the same for a Craps Session. Trying to find some connection between shooter, dice totals and your betting behavior will be posted behind the Boxman on a wide screen. Not to provide any information, but to bring in the live ones thinking it means something.

    The only notes you should take. Your beginning bankroll, what game strategy did you follow and did you win, lose or break even. That is it.
     
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  18. Grizzoola, Jun 18, 2013

    Grizzoola

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    I suppose if you feel tracking improves your betting, welcome to it. On my last trip, I was next to an old guy (well, near my age, actually) ;-) who had this small thick notebook in his hand. The page was crammed w/ numbers. I didn't know what they were. After each of his rolls, he'd jot down some numbers. I commented on it to him & he said, "I have 11 more of these at home." He'd been playing for a number of years. He had to have been at that table 5 or 6 hours or more. He was there when I came & was still there when I came back after a few hours taking a break. To each his own, I say. The other players & the crew didn't care.
     
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  19. SevenOut, Jun 18, 2013

    SevenOut

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    Now, write the Ultimate Book on "live rolls". In soft cover, please, for $4.95.

    Let someone else break some pencil lead or smear ink on their fingers, leaving fingerprints on the layout and dice, dropping the notebook, reading glasses hanging onto the tip of a nose and misplacing writing utensils during play...

    Why not record the rolls of OTHER PLAYERS, while playing? Of course, you would need to record their upside and forward spots to keep things... true and accurate. Also record the chips in play, presses during the game and on/off on the Come Out rolls. Did a hardway number come up easy... record it. I hope you begin to get the idea that there is NO LIMIT to the amount information you can make notes.

    At one time there was a group of us that would record the buy in, win/loss and game strategy played. We might have done it for four months... and came to the conclusion that it was obvious that we were NOT making any profits playing Craps. One was my accountant. Last time we had a conversation on Craps, he does not even play any longer.

    This is my Positive response. Although I have to admit I have heard of a small paper back that recorded live rolls to test your game against. What is any more live, than tossing a pair of dice against the cinder blocks in your cell wall during your two week incarceration at the Atlantic City, New Jersey municipal jail. Not only for pocketing the errand die on the carpet, but also after being strip searched discovering that you had OTHER errant dice concealed under both arm pits... that were not cancelled. Whoa....

    OK, I am having a little fun with all of this. What a hoot.

    I did admit having a little notebook for a short period of time and realized that the only thing I learned was I would lose more often than I would win playing Craps. I already knew that... without writing it down. Now there is no proof, no history and my memory is short enough, now, to see myself as a constant big time winner and concerned I will have to pay taxes some day on this massive gambling windfall!
     
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  20. Fase Vir, Jun 19, 2013

    Fase Vir

    Fase Vir Member

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    I have tracked the dice on the casino table for a period of 1700 hours in two year period. And I am continuing to do so now and hope to do for forseeble future. While I track the numbers as they show up, I am tracking certain ways of system plays. I do this diligently and with patience.To me it is fun. Then I analyse the findings and chart winnings and or losses. My findings are as follows:
    System One: Play $6 on 6 and $6 on 8 all the time including Come out roll. And reapeat same after the point is set. Take down each bet after a win. SO far the result has been A 26% return on risking $12 per hour= $3.64 per hour. All other systems have given return of less than this system, some systems are cosistantly loosers with sudden rare win. If any one is interested in commenting on this finding, you are very welcome to do so. More brains are better than one to find a craps secet code to win , if there is one!
     
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