Opposite sides = 7

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Grizzoola, May 11, 2019.

  1. Grizzoola, May 11, 2019

    Grizzoola

    Grizzoola Member

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    Much has been made of the fact that opposite sides of a die = 7. I don't think it makes any difference if the sides were numbered differently. I think the idea is that out of any 36 combinations of the numbers 2-12, the 7 would still be predominant. After all, RNGs have no relation to dice, yet the 7 still remains dominant.
     
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  2. Night Attack, May 11, 2019

    Night Attack

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    Now you're going to get them started. I'll put my two cents in here and then get the hell out.

    I don't know if you can just put the numbers anywhere. I don't really know how the dice are manufactured but it may have something to do with the pips and whether they are painted on or drilled in and filled. That may result in the dice being weighted towards the sides with most pips and therefore cause unbalanced dice.

    The eagle will be landing soon. I'm out.
     
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  3. Bases loaded, May 11, 2019

    Bases loaded

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    This is part of dice security. When the stick man puts the dice in front of the box man, and 'splays' them, the box can now see 10 of the 12 sides of the dice. The 2 down faces are deduced by subtracting the up faces from seven.
     
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  4. Mssthis1, May 11, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    Results would be the same, no matter how the pips were distributed.

    All the things mentioned above are the reason dice are made the way they are. main one is game integrity. With the pips arranged with opposite sides adding up to seven its easy to spot a gaffed dice if it's slipped into the game.

    I see the day where craps dice have no pips. 2 dice with a RNG and led readout in them will be the future. They could use those for a long period of time without having to swap them out.
     
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  5. von duck, May 11, 2019

    von duck

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    It doesn't matter which side which number is on, it's stupid to think that it does. What might make more sense, is that odd and even numbers are on opposite sides. :cool:
     
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  6. von duck, May 11, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Exactly how does it make it "easier" to spot a "gaffer" die. What, somebody will put a die in play with a zero or an eight on one of the sides. :confused:. :cool:
     
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  7. Bases loaded, May 11, 2019

    Bases loaded

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    yes, a die face with zero or 8 pips would be considered 'gaffed'.
     
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  8. von duck, May 11, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    :confused: The a average box man can't even count to seven, much less deduce anything. I doubt if there is any real reason for the arrangement, just customary, that's all. Can table dice, have rounded corners, or must they be cubes? :cool:
     
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  9. Bases loaded, May 11, 2019

    Bases loaded

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    ding, ding, ding! we have a winner!!
     
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  10. von duck, May 11, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Yeah, but if it had a zero on one side, and a seven on the opposite side, it would still add up to seven, so nobody would be any the wiser. :)
     
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  11. Mssthis1, May 11, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    You do realize dice have been around since what, Roman days? Back then people people did try to slip dice into games that had say two faces with 5 pips instead of one face with 5 pips.

    The opposite sides add up to seven is nothing more than a game integrity holdout form ancient times. That and anyone with one drop of engineering blood in them would design them that way since its the logical way to do it.
     
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  12. Bases loaded, May 11, 2019

    Bases loaded

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    Cheap shot at the duck!
     
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  13. eagleeye2, May 11, 2019

    eagleeye2

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    Mssthis1,

    A bit more than a ""one drop of engineering blood"" is required of you to figure this one out!!!

    Why do Opposite Sides of Casino Dice Add to "SEVEN"

    I will start with the BASICS:

    ODDS & Casino Pay-Outs (which include the Casino's Take or House Advantage, HA) are Statistically Calculated based upon the assumption that each side of both Dice in Play, has an EQUAL CHANCE of landing FACE UP, when thrown on a Craps Table.

    We then have what are called Fair, Balanced, Perfect, or Straight Dice. These Dice are the ones that one wants to play with, in most instances.

    In the game of Craps, two of these dice are thrown down a Craps Table & the SUM of the #'s appearing on the UP SIDE of each Die, are added together.

    Casino Dice have SIX (6) sides, or Faces, each containing one of the #'s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. Which when added together give us the #'s Two (2) to Twelve (12).

    I will dispense with the myriad of numbers & events which one can bet on in Craps, & only state here, that once a POINT has been established, throwing any SEVEN (7) results in all but don't bets being taken down thereby & surrendered to the casino.

    Thus the CORRECT ANSWER ~ Casino's Demand that Opposite SIDES of DICE ADD to (7), as with that configuration, whenever any weight Unbalance Occurs, in a Weight Biased DIE, when combined with a FAIR DIE, automatically INCREASES the Frequency of SEVENS that are thrown with those DICE!

    Now cut the BS!

    eagleeye2
     
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  14. Mssthis1, May 11, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    Biased dice is old Indian proverb for Bad Craps Player, also known as Sore Loser. ;)
     
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  15. eagleeye2, May 11, 2019

    eagleeye2

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    Mssthis1,

    Those that do not check for Weight Biased Dice, prior to placing their $$$ on a CRAPS Table @ a Casino, have no respect for those $$$ & deserve to lose to the Casino!

    eagleeye2
     
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  16. von duck, May 11, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    What did the "old Indians" call blatant liars? :cool:
     
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  17. eagleeye2, May 11, 2019

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    WOW,

    Mssthis1,

    Stumped three times in a ROWE!!!

    eagleeye2
     
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  18. Mssthis1, May 11, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    A set of casino dice are never in play long enough to get a sufficient sample to verify any bias.

    If you want to believe this knock yourself out. Playing less because you believe the dice are biased is just as good a way to lose less money because you aren't playing as the 5 count.
     
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  19. eagleeye2, May 11, 2019

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Mssthis1,

    Idiot, Sample Size Required is dependent upon the DEGREE of Bias in a DIE!

    With 100% Balanced & Otherwise Perfect Dice, (Zero Bias) a large Sample Size is required due to the Variance involved in the 36 combinations of #'s that can occur.

    When dealing with High BIAS, as is the case with Casino use of Biased Dice, one can tell if the Dice are Highly Biased with but a dozen throws with the same dice!

    Yes, the greedy Casino's that use Biased Dice, Love folks that believe as you do & readily give up their $$$ to them.

    eagleeye2
     
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  20. Mssthis1, May 11, 2019

    Mssthis1

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    A dice that biased wouldn't be tossable. It would wobble in flight like a wounded duck.

    I take it physics class wasn't in the cards for you? Think about how much bias it would take to overcome gravity, forward motion, friction from the layout and the other laws of physics to cause dice results that would be statistically different from random.
     
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