Opening an EMPTY CRAPS TABLE- for the FIRST TIME!

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by SevenOut, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. rudeboy99, Nov 18, 2013

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    The industry term for the route some restless Craps dealers dealers travel from Wendover, Elko, Jackpot, Winnemucca, Fallon, Hawthorne and on and on is "the Sagebrush Circuit"...I've made a few. I've found that those little towns have a BIG TROUBLE ratio due to idle hands truly being the Devil' workshop and finding myself and peers bar bound regularly when off the clock. The capper is that almost every one of these little burgs has 1 to 5 "houses of ill repute" in the vicinity...this all adds up to a blueprint for disaster...fact. ;-P
     
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  2. rudeboy99, Nov 18, 2013

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    I meant to compliment you, 7-Out, on your most enjoyable post to begin this thread. Your writing and storytelling talents are HUGE! I noticed that several posters said that they weren't confident enough in their skills, that they wouldn't try to start up a game at a dead table. Well that's just crazy! If there is EVER a good time to mix learning with some small stakes gambling, receiving 1 on 1 Q&A time with the crew members, it is generally during that "graveyard" zone between 2 & about 6:30 A.M.( I know as this is the shift I prefer) Truth be told, the late night dealers (my crew anyway) are always happy when a trailblazer steps up to a dead game and puts the dice in the air, because that first shooter is the first step to starting a good game. Unfortunately, a lot of players feel that they are intruding, upsetting the dealers privacy or something. Au contraire, partner! A point in fact is back in the day, joints would hire "shills", guys who would play at a dead game, earning small wages, and playing with House money. They would have to fade out when players started flocking in, turning their chips back to the Pit boss. Every one I knew was about 3/4 crazy with good reason. Talk about a frustrating way to earn a living! In a word, don't be shy if you find yourself near a dead game and want to play, everybody there wants you to play, too! ;-P
     
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  3. flyguyfl, Nov 22, 2013

    flyguyfl

    flyguyfl Member

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    Love that early morning time when the dealers are inactive and seeking some action. Tends to be a friendly time too, especially if you put a bet on for them about the third roll. You can take your time, chat a bit and won't feel like you are obstructing he game.
    Will be doing this again in early Jan 2014.
     
    #23
  4. Hndful1, Feb 12, 2014

    Hndful1

    Hndful1 Member

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    I really enjoyed that post. I've been playing for about 6 months now, and I remember my stomach turning in the beginning just walking up to the table, anticipating that I was going to drop several hundred dollars in just a short time. As time went on, and with more understanding, the fright lessened. I still have a lot of learning to do, and depending how the dice are rolling, may find myself trying different strategies. I enjoy approaching an empty table now because, as you say, you can play at your own pace, concentrate on that particular strategy you're using, and practice practice practice if you're a controlled roller. And although there may be nobody to "high five", there's nothing wrong with a few loud "yesses" when your point hits!
     
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  5. rudeboy99, Apr 8, 2014

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    The "knuckle bump" is the preferred mode of celebration here in N. Nevada. We dealers need someone to put the dice in the air to get a game started. This might be the time (early A.M.) to ask questions about any part of the game that's not fully understood, if you have any that is.:cool:
     
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  6. FredP

    FredP Member

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    You are all correct.
    My only problem with opening a table or playing after all players have left is not being able to take a breather for awhile. I like to sit on my geezer chair and let the crazy crappers go wild.
    Also, can't do the Scoby 5 Count if I'm the only shooter and not a DI.

    Fred
     
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  7. The Comeback Kid, Apr 9, 2014

    The Comeback Kid

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    Never too late to become a DI, if you want to.
     
    #27
  8. $nakeEye$, Apr 9, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    Fred,
    Did this 2 weeks ago while killing time waiting for the crew to arrive -
    Found a vacant $25 table - WOW - that was EASY -
    Made a $25 PL wager and a $25 DP wager -
    Shot till someone else approached and bought in -
    Backed off till MY turn -
    $25 Pl and $25 DP wager -
    FREE Practice at a vacant OR almost vacant table -
    NEXT time I will make place bets on my predominant numbers !

    $...eE..$
     
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  9. flyguyfl, Apr 16, 2014

    flyguyfl

    flyguyfl Member

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    $nakeEyes$, did any of the crew say anything? No comps for you pal. LOL
     
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  10. $nakeEye$, Apr 17, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    flyguyfl -

    NO - not a peep was said by the dealers, the stick nor the box -

    However, playing in the same casino with ' others ' a week or two later -

    THEY were criticized for betting in the same manner -

    Being told in no uncertain terms that a $10 differential needs to be maintained between the Pl and DP wagers -

    This occurred at a $10 - and the intentional heat was directed at certain individual(s) !

    Apparently there was a ' flag ' or some other notation on their record when they bought in and presented their player's card(s) to the box [email protected]

    $...eE..$
     
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  11. rudeboy99, Jun 30, 2014

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    This $10 differential is a new wrinkle I've never heard before. We've always allowed do/don't action, but most players who use it will either take or lay some odds. Just betting two simultaneous flat bets is a negative proposition over the long haul due to the stand off when 12 rolls and if you're just doing it to boost your comps an alert boxman won't be inclined to give you much, and rightly so. :cool:
     
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  12. HereToWin1, Jul 9, 2014

    HereToWin1

    HereToWin1 Member

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    Last time I went, it was because the table had too many players for me. That is why I didn't go up. When no one was at the table, that's when I made my move. The reason for me was that the guy's (I thought) would be able to take a little time with me. I didn't feel rushed. Next thing I knew I was hitting my points. 7 - 11 on the come outs. I was kicking ass! Next thing you know one guy jumps in, and he's betting way more than me, and I was making him a butt load of money. I was happy for him. Then more and more starting showing up. I was a great feeling. It wasn't long after that though that the boat was going back and I had to cash out. From being down before going up to the table I left with a little in my pocket.

    Great story 7 out!
     
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  13. 7DOWN11, Jul 20, 2014

    7DOWN11

    7DOWN11 Member

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    Hi every one... been a while since I've been on the forum. But sevenuut I think I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid! this post topic was exactly why I came to the form, to post my own questions regarding an empty table! Thanks sevenout! But I do go to my local in what might be considered off hours. And I am really starting to think it might be best for me to play at the table and it only be me and no one else. Just this week I drop $500 in about 20 minutes, and if it was the guy rolling the dice like he was playing Yahtzee or the dude throwing the dice off the table evey other time he shoots the dice, or like last time the guy getting a warning from the table manager that he's taking to long to shoot. So with that said, if you feel like I am starting to feel, and you are a good to medium type controller roller. Should you be happier to play an empty table? Or are you quicker and more able to adjust your betting to the good or bad rolling of ever other Tom, Dick and Mary that's rolling?
     
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  14. $nakeEye$, Jul 21, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    The EMPTY table -

    EACH and EVERY time -

    The BEST bet on " Random Rollers " -

    Is NO BET !

    $...eE..$
     
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  15. $nakeEye$, Jul 22, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    7DOWN11 -

    Allow me to add to and clarify my above statement / remark -

    We just returned from a Sunday session at a casino in AC, NJ -

    There were 4 of us as a group / team - on a table with others -

    After approx. 3-4 hours of table play at a $10 min table -

    My wife and I were down $1200 combined - the other 2 were down a boat load of $ also -

    We took a dinner break at the Diamond Lounge for about an hour or so -

    Upon returning to the tables after dinner -

    I took particular notice of how empty the previously over-flowing tables suddenly became -

    I firmly believe - due to the fact we were able to get the dice back into our hot little hands quickly -

    Was a major factor in MY and my wife's ability to turn around a $1200 loss into a $900 win -

    Should have been a $1K win -

    BUT the wife pressed a 4 or 10 hit to $400 instead of the required $300 bet !

    Oh well - MINOR issues !

    ALSO - when her and I play solo -

    WE SEEK out empty tables and RUN to them -

    In order to secure our preferred spots before the maddening crowd almost always follows -

    THEN - it's " Off to the Races " again, and again, and again ................. !

    $...eE..$

    Edited
     
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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  16. SevenOut, Jul 22, 2014

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    We were in Las Vegas in June for a week and it seems like a vague memory. Still nursing the winnings in my wallet, I still have no interest stepping into a Casino... yet. This just happens to a veteran Craps Player when playing long enough to understand that the dice can turn on your luck on the next roll... and you wish you had left the table... EMPTY.

    One interesting Empty Table at the Cannery Casino which is just across the street from Sam's Town.

    One shooter and One Dealer. The Dealer was also the Stick and the Boxman and working a "shortened" 14 foot table. The Dealer put up a diamond rubber padded board on the far end of the center proposition bets. It made the 14 foot table about 8 feet and he could handle any bets as expected. This was the first time I had seen this in Las Vegas. Maybe some other single player at a Craps Table has shot at this arrangement recently, but when business is slow, they take the Craps crew and spread them onto other table games. As any Casino Dealer knows... once you deal Craps at a Casino... you are a Craps Dealer. You will be cross trained for Black Jack and Roulette, but you will always be pulled off another table game to staff a Craps table that was empty and now attracting more players! (So, if you want to deal in a Casino and do NOT want to deal Craps... do not let them train you for Craps. Most Craps Dealers have a different SET of personality traits, than a Blackjack or Roulette dealer. I think you already realized that as I finished the sentence.)

    This would possibly be the "Chance of a Life Time" for a DI who has practiced a short roll... a very short roll... almost like the 8 foot tub on the Davenport, Iowa riverboat days with only one dealer. It looked so awkward that if you reached far enough forward the dice were only out of your hand for four feet or less. At Davenport, Iowa you would walk up to the 8 foot tub and stand there a few minutes... a Dealer with a stick appeared... ready to open the table and have you buy in. He might have been nursing an empty Blackjack table. So this time it was the Dealer that opened the table for the single player!

    Had this dealer opened the table for one player and five others showed up, there would have been reinforcements called in to help and pull the "board". It could have been interesting.

    There are a few Empty Table situations:

    1- Full Table of Dealers and a Boxman
    2- Full Table of Dealers and no Boxman
    3- Half table with one or two dealers
    4- Half table with one dealer
    5- Tub with an end Dealer and Stick watching the other end
    6- Full sized table with a "shunt" for one dealer
    7- Full sized table with a "shunt" for one dealer and a stick

    For DI and Dice Control shooters, maybe the shorter distances does create an opportunity. I do not know. I do know that when you shoot at a "shunted table" it really... feels WIERD. Almost as if I am at home shooting on a 6 foot layout practicing some system that had some potential.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  17. $nakeEye$, Jul 23, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    I like the concept of " shortening a 14' table " -

    AC as does LV - have a mix of 12 and 14 foot tables -

    At present I have a practice rig set-up which consists of a stationary receiving station which measure 30" W x 6' long -

    And a portable throwing station which I can move to shoot from SR1/SL1 to S/O - and duplicate the lengths of 12 and 14' tables -

    BUT I do want to build a table and have a 14' layout from the defunct " Lady Luck " casino -

    By building a secondary " portable back wall " that I can install /remove at will -

    I can have both a 12' and 14' table when I build the 14' craps table -

    As I shoot primarily from the S/O position - this portable device would resolve numerous issues I have concerning having to build only 1 table !

    Seven-Out - the 1st one's on me when we meet !

    Great idea you gave me !

    $...eE..$
     
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  18. SevenOut, Jul 23, 2014

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Your post was interesting and worth trying to point you in the right direction.

    Getting specific to Lady Luck layout for a 12 or a 14 foot practice table, you might settle on a 12 foot that has not been trimmed, as the apron around the edges would probable be over 14 feet already, with some room to trim if necessary. A 14 foot layout has pretty much the same printing, just more cloth that also is trimmed once you staple the cloth onto the "board".

    I was buying layouts in Las Vegas in 1995/1996 and I tried to find some of the catalogs from various gaming suppliers. Here is what you can do to find one or more layouts. If I can find a catalog, I will PM you with the information.

    (1) Yes, I know... numbering my points in a post, again.

    (2) CALL the Lady Luck Casino and try to speak to someone in a supervisory position in the Craps Pit. Since you are not in town, you cannot just walk over to the Pit and flag someone down to find out WHO to talk to. A USED layout is FREE... but will have moderate wear at the most. The layout gets a cigarette burn in the cloth, or some wine, or someone puked... it comes off. Paying for shipping FOLDED and not rolled, might be $25 Priority... but this is probably your worse chance of getting a layout.

    (3) There are a number of silk screeners that do the table layouts in Las Vegas. The cloth is the most expensive part of the process. The major Casinos use the better cloth, as it lasts longer. There are usually three to five colors to silk screen, depending on the Casino's design. Some silk screening colors are small and a literal pain in the pumpkins to do, without screwing it up. Now they are out $150 on a cloth. YOU can buy these as "seconds". Usually around $250 for a minor problem, and it would be minor. The Casinos look at this stuff and it has to be... PERFECT, otherwise they send it right back. A splotch somewhere on the layout... if the silk screener gets 50% of the cloth's cost...he is happy to sell it and charge you the shipping charge. Shipping, under $25. They will tell you how much the cloth weighs, and tell them folded is fine. You could get a layout that is backed with a material for extra strength, or just a cloth itself. Depends on what they have rolled up... six days or five YEARS sitting gathering dust.

    (4) For material to lay underneath your layout, the older pre 1980's used a cloth matting. Over time they began to use a dense black rubber material... so the dice bounce all over the place. That is what I converted my Dunes Casino 12 and 14 foot tables with. I bought it at some industrial supply place in Kansas City. It was about 5/16", maybe thicker...but this was a long time ago.

    (5) The board that the cloth staples onto is 2" or more thick. These tables are built to handle people leaning against it. Try finding some plywood that is 48" by 14 feet. Good luck.

    (6) For your DI practice... each Casino can chose different cloth textures. Smooth and slick. Rough and lots of threads to catch the corners of the new razor edged dice. Some cloth could be used to make a nice suit. Some cloth would be used to bag potatoes. Hey... I know, I have seen this stuff and been in places where Casinos sell their surplus parts and pieces.

    (7) To purchase directly from a Casino might be iffy. You might need a Gambling License. I used a former Casino Buyer who would buy and resell hardware. I would tell him what I wanted and he would pick up the telephone and call.

    (8) I would try calling the off the Strip shops that sell slot machines, chips, books and new non commercial tables. They have tons of stuff they paid practically nothing for... as the Casino says... get it out of here... and out it goes.

    (9) I hope this helps. I have not bought and sold tables for a long time, but the used equipment is coming out faster than the Casinos can find a "broker" to haul it out the door. IN Las Vegas a used layout is probably under $150... and negotiated down to $75. I would post on Craigslist under Collectables in Las Vegas. There is an unlimited supply of stuff... and few buyers. ASK in your Craigslist ad what you want, sizes you would accept and see what happens. You might be happy you did!

    (10) And... if you get that Lady Luck layout, which I have seen them... and get one after using any of the above... you will owe me some DI instruction. Even a skeptic needs to have ... options.
     
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  19. $nakeEye$, Jul 23, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    SevenOut -

    I HAVE the layout -

    BRAND NEW - never used - top quality with a silk or similar material backing - very thin - with a white backing -

    Purchased it on eBay a few years back -

    It was originally shipped ' folded ' but has been ' rolled ' for quite some time now -

    Regards the 14' plywood layout -

    Got that down to manageable sizes - 4' W X 4' L - and 4' W X 2' L - 4' W X 6' L - ALL by 3/4" Furniture grade 7 layer plywood -

    The 2 layers of 3/4" when stacked give a 1 1/2" base -

    The pieces are ' over - lapped ' to provide a 2' lap -

    E.G. - base layer is 4'L + 6'L + 4'L = 14' OA L -

    top layer is 2'L + 5'L + 5'L + 2'L = 14' OA L

    Each piece is slotted at the joints to receive a spline to ensure evenness of all surfaces -

    Pieces are screwed together from the bottom - this avoids surface problems - compromising the smoothness of the layout -

    I have given this considerable thought -

    Everything can be broken down to make it portable for shipping and/or moving from point A - point B !

    My ONLY problem was do I build 2 tables - a 12' and a 14' or 1 table -

    And cut down the layout !

    YOU solved THAT problem with your secondary / portable back wall !

    Regards the DI instruction -

    THAT would be " My Pleasure " to YOU -

    And like that song of yesteryear was entitled - " ONLY YOU " !

    $...eE..$
     
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  20. Dicepops, Jul 23, 2014

    Dicepops

    Dicepops Member

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    I've found a lot of places in No. Nevada that have only a 1/2 table open in the morning. How does this fit the discussion?
     
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