On Axis Classes biggest nightmare!

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Dave G Ct, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Defining one dice off axis is fine in practice but in live play your sample is going to be small.Stick with the big picture and trust your shot.I will allow one set change.
     
    #121
  2. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Yes, trust your toss, but KNOW what your dice are doing on EVERY toss! Is it NOT an advantage to know that 75% of the time, your left die flips over? That's something that is exploitable! Is it NOT?

    How can you exploit things if your ONLY concern is "Trust your toss"? You need to know what set to use to get the job done!

    Now, MOST Di's say "Use the same set", & don't change things if You want consistent results!

    Old Top goes against that "So'Called" Conventional wisdom! Allow me to explain.....If my Very first toss (Using the hardways set: 55/44 ) is a 6/3 (9), that is information I use for my NEXT toss! Do you REALLY think I'm gonna change to a Dice Set to make the 9, when the prior toss exhibiteda die that flipped over?

    Nope! Gonna KEEP using that Hardways set until I don't See a 6 or 1 in the tossing plane! You CANNOT seven out with a 6 or 1 on one die & a 2,3,4,5 on the other die!

    I make dice set adjustments on EVERY toss, based upon what the prior toss has given me! This type of play is considered the "Forbidden Fruit" by MOST ALL "Schools, & players alike! Why? Because they teach consistency! Same Set, Same Landing Spot & Same Toss Motion!

    This supposedly brings repeating numbers, & Old Top will agree with that! However, I will NOT agree that I should continue to use the same Dice Set on EVERY toss! I am of the opinion that EVERY toss tells you which Dice Set to use on the next toss!

    Could be the same set, might be a Different set! It's all contingent upon the previous toss's result!

    But, but, but, every toss is independent! Okay, Sherlock, but that's NOT the way that Old Top plays the game!

    Will there be a differing of opinions? Ya betcha! Will some say that Old Top has lost his Friggin mind? Ya betcha!

    Does Old Top five a flying Fuck? Don't Answer!

    See you at the Top!
     
    #122
  3. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    You said that a DI should look to see if a die is off axis. My God you are using the Hardway set.Any one or six in the outcome tells you what you need to know.
    Now I will give my thoughts.So what if a die is off axis.Only one roll.Maybe the next roll a PFH.Like I said too small a sample.
     
    #123
  4. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Different Strokes, different folks!
    A song comes to mind......."I did it my way"! Never said I stayed with the Hardways set throughout the hand, but YOU BETTER BELIEVE that the Hardways set is a "Water Tester" for me on EVERY toss of the dice, UNLESS I receive EXPECTED results on the prior toss! That's correct......Gauging back, & forth on EVERY toss, Constantly making the appropriate adjustments(if needed)!

    You guys are too afraid to constantly monitor EVERY Toss, changing sets AS NEEDED! You think that if you change something, the Seven is coming! Pure Superstition!

    Dance with the Bitch that you brought to the party? NOT ME! If the bitch ain't producing.......She's gotta go! That's right! Kick her ass right to the curb, UNTIL she BEHAVES accordingly!

    Pimping two bitches ( the dice) sure ain't easy! Gotta tell the bitches: "Without proper instruction, you'll be headed for Self destruction"! Lol. Its all in fun, Dave! Enjoy the Holidays!
     
    #124
  5. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Have you ever stuck with the Hardway during a hand?
     
    #125
  6. Edward-ky, Dec 26, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    I figure the biggest nightmare for these classes is reality.
     
    #126

  7. Heavy

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    Well, I'm making a rare exception to my personal rule about not posting on other forums. Why not post on them? Well, the situation should be obvious to any readers who haven't had a sip of the Kool Aid on the forums that let members behave badly with no moderation to speak of. Posters twist what you say, take things out of context, and flat-out lie. Why should anyone want to get involved in that? Well, there you go.

    You guys have apparently decided that I am the Great Satan of Craps. Well, I don't have the time or the interest in responding to every negative thing said about me or my forum on this thread. However, I do have a couple of things to say.

    The Axis Power Craps forum has been around in one incarnation or another for around 15 years now. At one time we had almost 5000 members. We lost a LOT of them along the way, mostly due to the meltdown of the old proboards outfit that used to host the site. We pretty much started over from scratch at that point, which was a good thing because we weeded out a few sock puppets in the process.

    A few years ago, after trying several different "free" options, I decided to host the on the same server that hosts my other websites - www.axispowercraps.com and www.crapsfest.com. These are, as someone noted earlier, commercial operations. They operate under my LLC, Axis Power Publishing. There is a HUGE amount of content on these sites that is available for FREE to anyone interested in learning more about the game. At present we have around 1500 forum members and over 60,000 posts archived on the site. As for the sites themselves, I pay for the websites, hosting services, programming, etc. out of profits from the sites. The profits are generated primarily from in come from book sales, video sales, and the seminar business I run.

    I have always advocated that new players should learn as much as they can for free before taking any sort of class on craps. There are plenty of good books out there available for just a few bucks on Amazon. There are websites with good info available for free. And there are forums that allow for the exchange of ideas on subjects like betting strategies, toss techniques, etc. Again, all free. There is, of course, a dearth of incorrect information out there as well. I won't mention names or point fingers, but one only has to visit YouTube to stumble onto a host of videos by guys who obviously don't have a clue as to how to toss the dice properly. To that end, I tell players to take it all with a grain of salt, don't believe anything you read in a trip report unless it's reported "warts and all," and to never test the depth of the water with both feet when jumping in a game.

    The forum itself is highly moderated. Despite this fact, only about a dozen people have actually been barred from my sites since their inception. Interestingly enough, most of those guys post here and are among my greatest detractors. On the other hand, a couple of my detractors on this thread surprised me. To that end, the list of banned members on the forum is increasing this week. Why? How many of you would pay for a site such as mine (and I spent close to $3K on website related expenses this year) then permit forum members to trash-talk you on it. For that matter, why would I want to keep someone as a member of the forum (which grants him access to the members-only sections) when they're talking smack about me on other forums? (Which is why I rarely even visit, much less post on these forums).

    The fact is, I do not run the Axis Power Craps forum as a democracy. What I attempt to do is provide an environment for thoughtful members to make enlightening posts - in hope that some of you will actually learn something about the game that will help you reduce your losses. And let's face it - pretty much ALL of you are long term losers at the game, regardless of what you claim to the contrary.

    Regarding the peer to peer "wisdom" dispensed on this forum - never have I seen so many innumerate idiots post so much drivel. Your math skills are laughable. Your grasp of "Axis" dice influence is essentially wrong or non-existent. You guys are so weak that you don't know what you don't KNOW. All I read on this forum are posts bickering over bullshit and calling each other names. Really, why would anyone even want to visit a site that allows that?

    What I suspect we have here are a lot of guys sitting around in their underwear, slamming down three drinks too many. You post when you're drunk and the whisky makes you a big man. You failed in life as a self-taught engineer or scientist or day laborer and now all you have is the Internet and your once a week trek to the Indian casino - assuming your Social Security check holds out. You consider yourself brilliant because you are an "educator" posting from a free server on campus (if the administration only knew) filling your spare time trying to agitate people on the various forums while you wish you had tenure. I get it. You can be anyone you want to be on the Internet. You can even present yourself as an expert. But to those of us who have been around the block more than once - you are just a sad bunch of wannabes who are jealous of those of us who have put in the work to be successful.

    One of you claims to have invented dice control and says he possesses "secret" knowledge about me he threatens to expose. One bitches about a class he attended where he refused virtually every bit of advice that was given him. One complains about other experts on my forum, like Irishsetter, who was the guy who founded dicesetter.com way back in the day; the guy who's site many of you first learned about dice influence from. Is Irish's personality acerbic? Absolutely. Why do I allow him to piss people off on the forum from time to time? Because while you are busy being pissed off, the other 80% of the people reading the post are saying "Oh yeah. I see that. He's right."

    Someone remarked on the fact that attendance was down at the seminars I run this year. Attendance WAS down, but tuition fees increased this year. We did that to reduce the size of the classes so we could have more one-on-one time with the individual students.

    Why do we charge "hook-up" fees for live sessions played with the coaches? To put a stop to the looky-loo's who came to town specifically to try and hook up with us for live play without attending the seminar that weekend. Fact is, our first obligation is to play with the guys who paid the freight to get us there. The hook-up fees virtually eliminated this problem. Again, you guys talk smack without knowing the underlying reason why we do things.

    The very subject matter of this thread - that slow motion videos are the biggest nightmare of Axis shooting school - is bogus. First off, we've posted many toss videos on my forum, including my own. As mentioned further up this thread, 44% of tosses produce an on-axis result for random shooters. But the toss of a player with 55% on axis result may also "look" random. However, if you track 7200 or more rolls in BoneTracker and evaluate the results you'll find that they are NOT random. As for those who THINK you have no skills because you are tossing at 33% on axis - the good news is that once we've identified that issue we can either fix it - or take advantage of it the way it is. If you are tossing at 33% on-axis you ARE influencing the dice. To take advantage of that influence you merely change the set to one that's more forgiving for off-axis shooters - OR - you stick with the set that's producing too many off-axis Sevens and play the Don'ts. It's not rocket science but clearly some of you don't grasp it.

    Do I teach a SINGLE toss technique - the on-axis technique? Yes and no. I do not TEACH any off-axis tosses because I believe if you are good enough to succeed with that throw you should be able to influence the dice with an on-axis technique, which is actually easier to execute. I also like to steer players away from what I call the "grail quest," where they spend all of their time pursuing some sort of magic throw that's going to turn them into instant winners instead of doing the work required to master ONE toss.

    Howard and I are good friends and have been playing together since 2001. I enjoy working with him on the classes because it brings a synergy to the seminar that's not there with just one coach. When Howard works with me on a seminar we do demonstrate some alternate tosses. I have about a half-dozen in my arsenal. Howard has more. The students enjoy seeing and attempting these throws, but they are not the bread-and-butter tosses we teach. The on-axis toss is the one that gets the money.

    No doubt I missed a couple of your comments as I skimmed this thread, but I think I've touched on the bulk of the things I wanted to say. With this many people talking trash about me, I guess I must be doing something right. I just consider the source. Besides, the more you post about me the more new members we get over on my forum.

    In conclusion, as a result of some of the things said bout me on this forum, a couple of people who are members here have already been locked out of mine this morning. More are coming before the week is done.

    Enjoy your time on the Short Bus, people. Frankly, it's your own fault you ended up there.
     
    #127
    HornHighBLEVE, dicepunk and DeMango like this.
  8. HornHiYo, Dec 26, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    On Axis Class Biggest Nightmare!?
    Suckers stop being born every minute, no websites, and while the self proclaimed expert(s) and cronies are holding a class Patricia Demario Steps up to the table, throws another record breaking hand winging any set every which way but off the table.
     
    #128
  9. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Only if the previous toss warrants it! Common sense tells me that if one die consistently ( like every other toss) flips over, I need to CONTINUE using the Hardwsys set!

    Now, at what rate that you want to critique your toss & make dice set changes is a matter of personal preference! I judge on every toss! Some people might think that is a little too severe, & decide to make adjustments every 2-3 tosses!

    Example: first toss a die flips over. Use the same set, & see if it continues to happen, OR I didn't like what I see on the FIRST toss, so I am not making another toss without a Set adjustment! The rate at which you decided to make adjustments is shooter dependsnt!

    Some shooters couldnt give a rat's ass WHAT results that are getting on every toss! If they start a hand with.......let's say the 3V set, they will ride the 3V until they crash, & burn!

    There is no right for wrong way or right way of Dice Set utilization! It's simply a matter of WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!
     
    #129
  10. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Edward
    So you do not put that much value in these classes.Sort of you have the talent or not.
     
    #130
  11. Edward-ky, Dec 26, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    I don't put any value on the classes seeing as I never been to them and have no knowledge of them.
     
    #131
  12. Edward-ky, Dec 26, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    And you are a long term winner because you say so on your forum board. Not trying to be a dick but I don't know you at all so I just don't blindly believe someone just because they say it.

    You have to raise prices to lower the number of students. Can't you just limit the number of students allowed?
    Can you please define on axis? Does this mean they stay that way from start to finish or if they just end up that way for the final outcome?
     
    #132
  13. Edward-ky, Dec 26, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    With that logic Obama may be the greatest president ever.
     
    #133
  14. TDVegas, Dec 26, 2016

    TDVegas

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    Any one claiming to be a long term winner is a story. That story could be true. Could also be false.

    The sims point to a conclusion that there can be long term winners...

    The reality on those who claim they are skilled, dice influencers or AP craps players...is its a story. There's nothing to verify the truthfulness of that statement.

    This isn't the poker tour. We can't verify winnings. We can't verify skill. We can't see how many bracelets they have won.

    In the craps world...everything is a story. The only real verifiable stories come from the casinos themselves...the Wall at Fremont. The Golden Arm Club at the California. Pat DeMauro.

    Every other story is an anecdote. Might be true. Might not.
     
    #134
  15. Edward-ky, Dec 26, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    Yep you have to choose to either believe it or not. There are I am sure long term winners out there probably a bunch of them. Are they regular players that play quite regularly. Don't know. Actually don't care really doesn't help anyone on a public board, since they are not sharing them openly.
     
    #135
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  16. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Some broad statements but no evidence.Yes they monitor this board.Guess it does bother them especially " Shakes".Guess everyone here is a loser and unemployed.We might as well getting line.
     
    #136
  17. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    As to Irish running his board.This low rent bully can use insults and name calling.I do not call names- I make you look foolish- as Irish has found out.Let this " hero post here lol
     
    #137
  18. TDVegas, Dec 26, 2016

    TDVegas

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    And quite honestly Heavy's statement are not less credible than anyone else who makes claims of what works or what doesn't work. Rick or Harley or tdb or gargoil or anyone else here has no more or less credibility than Heavy on what works and what doesn't work in the AP craps world. His statements on craps and dice influence are just as credible as Ricks or ANYONE else on advantage craps play.

    My point is no one has proven dice influence or advantage craps play on any level is even a possibility....or not. We have a lot of talking. In that case...I beat Tiger Woods last week.
     
    #138
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  19. HornHiYo, Dec 26, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    Oh oh Dave G Ct. You have wakened the sleeping giant. Bend over and kiss your ass good bye on that board.
    But don't worry.... the next Short Bus is just around the corner and they will be glad to pick you up. They say the ride is free and you can help 'em bash Heavy and Irish.
    If you mind your Ps and Qs AND help bash MP they might let you toot the horn.
     
    #139
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  20. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Hornhiyo
    Might have a future in Fortune Telling.I was gone on my own weeks ago.
     
    #140