On Axis Classes biggest nightmare!

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Dave G Ct, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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  2. superrick, Dec 26, 2016

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    You see all of those slow motion videos prove that once the dice hits the table they are what everyone calls random and that is all there is to it!

    So, you better know how to bet the game or go home!
     
    #102
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  3. superrick, Dec 26, 2016

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    #103
  4. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Why cannot any DI school answer the question in explaining those videos.Everyone runs away from it.
     
    #104
  5. superrick, Dec 26, 2016

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    Dave, they make their money off of their students, not on the tables that's why!
     
    #105
  6. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Unfortunately for them you opened a lot of eyes yet they will not address it. Of course one can't. Like I said you have them on the run!
     
    #106
  7. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Think it was you who revealed the After Glow Fees that attendees had to pay to play on the same tables as the instructors.
     
    #107
  8. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

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    NEGATIVE! Old Top takes credit for THAT revelation! Listen, it's NOT in my nature to bash Heavy! However, I certainly don't think it's ethical to charge your students a "After Glow" fee for the Priviledge? ( Are you fucking kidding me) of playing on the same table/s as you!

    THAT was my disagreement with Heavy's agenda, COUPLED with the FACT that he let's "Old Shitter" run off some good forum members!

    Obviously ( at least it's been purported) that some pretty good shooters have evolved from Heavy's classes, so at least SOME payers have received their money's worth!

    However, in MY opinion, (as SnakeEyes stated: " You get out of it, what you put in to it)! You learn the FUNDAMENTALS of a good toss, & then you go at it like a Shark that smells blood!

    The REAL problem with most "Camps" is that they have a "my way is the ONLY (best) way attitude! Sadly, if you disagree, then all hell breaks loose!

    There are just sooooooooo many toss styles that WILL work, & the reason is simply because Table Surfaces & results will differ from table to table!

    If I learn GTC, & that's the ONLY toss I know, & I get on a Spongy layout instead of a hard table, guess what........ The old Nut Clipper!

    Listen, if you're gonna take people's money for teaching them how to toss dice, you need to have more than just a BASELINE toss that you are teaching! No exceptions!

    Students also need to be taught that Unconventional tosses work just as good & sometimes BETTER than the unconventional tosses!

    Case in point: When I tossed my 63 roll Stunner, I landed the dice dead smack in the CROTCH of the table! The schools would NEVER recommend this because what?...... They teach you to land the dice 4-6 inches from the back Wall!

    They don't teach you things such as: it's QUITE possible to land your dice on the word "Passline"( which is approximately 10-14 inches from the back Wall on most tables), & the dice will take one or two bounces, & hit at the bottom row of pyramids or beneath!

    Experimentation is the key! Learn the fundamentals, & expand from there! Become a Lab Rat, & discover things that are "Outside the Box", because BELIEVE ME........There are MANY, just waiting to be discovered!

    I can guarantee you this......A One Toss Charlie will end up like Bob Marley........DEAD!

    See you at the Top!
     
    #108
  9. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    So you were the one that she'd a light on this nefarious practice.Cannot understand something.You and Craps contribute immensely to the discussion.How can you both be driven off a board for maybe expressing a different viewpoint.! Boggles the mind.
     
    #109
  10. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

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    Typo... Prior post should state that the Unconventional tosses work as good or sometimes BETTER than the Conventional tosses!
     
    #110
  11. twodicebilly, Dec 26, 2016

    twodicebilly

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    Dave

    I really don't think that matters does it.

    I have taken a number of classes, probably more than I should have. But
    when I took those classes I had already been playing for over 35 years
    some of the folks had not really played at all. IT would not be unusual
    for them to place the instructors up a tad.

    Most of you guys know I like to fish and fish a lot and do pretty well in
    some tournaments..... 3 years ago I was asked to pre fish a tournament
    with a two time "walleye fisherman of the year" that is damn hard to
    do so yes I was impressed with him and the opportunity.

    I am impressed with any chance I get to play with SR.

    In terms of the video... to be honest I really don't think that
    matters a whole lot. NO matter what type of shot you
    use ( except one ) the idea is to have less movement of the
    dice after they do hit the table.... Go back and look at the
    shots you saw on the Ahigh show and then look at the shots
    you see from Kokoniga, or even a couple that Rick took, there
    is far less bounce after they hit the table on the last two examples.

    What the videos show is that dice do not stay on axis, but you don't
    get paid for that, you get paid because of where they end up. And if
    you get good enough at any one of the many styles of shots out
    there... you have a chance to minimize the HA.

    I think where some of the schools mess up is the idea that an on
    axis finish means the dice stayed on axis.... and we all know that
    is folly.

    But, I for one am not going to be to hard on the schools, even though
    I disagree with some of what they teach.. I think In general they
    help people be better players, even if the shots they teach will
    not help the majority that take the class.

    twodicebilly
     
    #111
  12. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Well, in Heavy's defense..... He IS running a business! Sometimes (Maybe I should say "Always") it's best to rid yourself of those that have a tendency to threaten, expose, your business model! $$$$$

    After all, Axis Power Craps is not a Non for profit organization! You KNOW the end result when there is dissention in the ranks!

    TRAITORS, TRAITORS........OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, I SAY! Lol
     
    #112
  13. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Talking about the After Glow Fees - let's rattle someone' s cage.

    Conversation reported at a recent DI event.

    Two students new to the game " sort " of got talked into purchasing the After Glow Fee.Now they were glued to what Heavy was saying and doing but Irish sort of rubbed them the wrong way.So after class with a busy casino guess what? Yes they are on a table with Irish.
    Bobby says to Rico " he told us not to talk to him at all" Quiet he has the dice- why is his hand shaking? Rico replies $125 for this and we foot this joker's buy in."Bobby The dice are going all over the place on this micro surface! This is random city and we have bought into it!!
     
    #113
  14. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Very well said!
     
    #114
  15. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    I agree 100℅ with you.Believe the sets work but cannot really explain it.True On Axis is possible but it happens very rarely.When I got into DI I bought the On Axis theory " hook, line, and sinker.SR & Top opened my eyes.
     
    #115
  16. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Nope, Dave! I'm done with this! I stated my opinion, but let's NOT stir the pot! Thought I was giving you an honest opinion, & trying to give you a little insight! Now you want to badger, & ridicule?

    Sorry........Not gonna bite!

    Enjoy your Holidays!
     
    #116
  17. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    A little story
    A GTX crew hit Foxwoods for a two day blitz.A fellow player joined their group for one day.In 2 hours he was down $800.He calls me from the casino." They are having major problems with the bounce on their tables.Of course they were shooting Parr I said " Why are you going down with their ship? " Oh they are nice guys - going out to eat with them.
     
    #117
  18. Dave G Ct, Dec 26, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Okay Top
    I will turn it down a bit.Lol
     
    #118
  19. tabletop123, Dec 26, 2016

    tabletop123

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    I might add this for those of you that TRY to influence the dice! Superrick put out the Best advice (free of charge) for any Di to remember!

    Follow what your left/right die are doing IN THE CASINO! Forget about the colored Dice die tracking at home! In my opinion, using two dice of a different color makes an ADVANCED player lazy, & not utilize good hand/eye coordination! Why? Simply because the Casinos dont allow to use two different colored Dice to determine which one of your die is flipping over!

    Different colored Dice for the novice player......Yes! For the ADVANCED............After all these years of practice, you cannot toss dice uniformly enough wherein you DONT Need dice of a Different color to determine where the "Flips" are occurring?

    Schools don't teach you this, nor have I EVER heard of ANY instructors that utilize this MUCH NEEDED skill( yes, it's a skill to follow two of the same colored Dice whilst tossing in the Casinos. ESPECIALLY with all the distractions) in the Casinos!

    How can you correct things "On the fly" if the ONLY thing you are concerned with is how pretty your tosses look in the air, & hitting your target?

    Guys like Superrick, SnakeEyes, & others are not just tossing the dice in tandem, they are playing a "Heady" game too, because they are making adjustments based on what a prior toss have given them!

    Constantly making adjustments based upon EVERY roll result! Trying to influence the dice is a Thinking Man's Craft!

    Maybe that's why Old Top gets his nuts Clipped! Maybe I should have finished school, huh?

    On second thought, I've had the displeasure of meeting some of the dumbest "Well Educated" people that you'd ever care NOT to meet! Lol
     
    #119
  20. gargoil, Dec 26, 2016

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    Well said Top. As I stated before this entire thread is to bash someone out of nowhere. Heavy is not my hero. He is a friend just like Snake SR TOP Craps and others on here. We don't see eye to eye on somethings but I will stand up and defend them when they get bashed for no reason.
     
    #120
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