On Axis Classes biggest nightmare!

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Dave G Ct, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. HornHiYo, Dec 27, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    You posted you have lost thousands of dollars over many years playing Craps and that you may have taken too many GTC DI classes.
    Based on that It seems to me you haven't accomplished In bank craps what you claim you accomplish at home. Unless of course what you have thrown and what you have bet in live games over several years are two different things.
    Maybe you could use a little luck. Just saying...
     
    #201
  2. TDVegas, Dec 27, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    With little to zero familiarity with how these schools work...do any of these teachers actually demonstrate influence (or James Halls's "dice outcome") during these classes?

    Some kind of of "now I'm going to show you how I roll the 6"....and actually do it.

    Maybe I'm some kind of enigma in all this thinking....but is it off base to suggest a teacher demonstrate results---before I put my final John Hancock on his check?

    Are these students not asking for actual demonstration of results from these self proclaimed gurus?
     
    #202
  3. HornHiYo, Dec 27, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    The ads and trolls get wannabe winners excited and enrolled into a program. They often send the "student" home study material in the mail. Then they sell them on taking a live class in a casino center where they can see how well other students follow the directions in the home study material. There the "expert" may or may not toss but when they do there is usually no accounting except for counting the number of tosses. Any longer than six beats random! Right?
    Then the experts sell them on taking a live casino session. Sometimes the expert will throw the hand of the day, But often someone other than the expert will catch a lucky hand. The expert will then take the credit for sharing and teaching a winning shot. Often the ones catching a lucky roll have invested lots of money but little time. One might ponder how can a player with so little practice time be skillful enough to out shoot the "expert"?
    You know. Your blind monkey knows as well.
     
    #203
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
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  4. TDVegas, Dec 27, 2016

    TDVegas

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    I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed....but I find it funny that so many fall for these straight out of the sales book 101 gimmicks to reel in the next fish.
     
    #204
  5. HornHiYo, Dec 27, 2016

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    Those that swallowed hook line and sinker remain adamant that it works for they have seen the light.
    I think that's why the experts point out to them so many obstacles that can prevent winning. Then they tell 'em not to play with or bet on randies. I think they fear the newbie will see the other side of the coin and figure out that regardless of where they play or who they play with they see about the same amount of winning.
     
    #205
  6. betwthelines, Dec 28, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    THIS IS CORRECT EXCEPT I AM WITHDRAWING THAT OFFER ---OR MORE ACCURATELY CHANGING IT...

    THE IDEA BEHIND THE CHALLENGE ARE DIer CLAIMS THAT THEY CAN SHOOT BETTER THAN RANDOM...THE CHALLENGE ITSELF IS MONEY, NOT TALK THAT THEY CANNOT DO.

    a random roller would be expected to roll 12 7s in 72 rolls...a skilled shooter should do better...therefore i am changing 12 7s from a "push" to a "loss"...if tdb, for example can DO what he claims that he can, he will still be at a great advantage.

    making this change will mean little anyway since thus far those claiming skill have refused to put their money where their mouths are but are rather than money looking for acknowledgement and affirmation, which the challenge, proving nothing, meaning nothing, will not provide.

    given this recently added proposition to the bohunk challenge---tabletop's idea (he will not be pleased with the change, lol)---at some point i will re-publish the entire challenge, perhaps in a new thread. with these changes and additions.

    but once again anyone is invited to make other claims of skill and regarding what they can do and additional b c bets can be structured around them.

    tom p
     
    #206
  7. JimRockford, Jan 2, 2017

    JimRockford

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    I am relatively new to craps, and I think the whole idea of DI is intriguing. I doubt that a specific technique will work for everyone, but it seems plausible to me that a shooter could find one that works for them.

    The results of any toss aren't really random. The dice are subject to fixed laws of physics. Any randomness occurs before the dice are thrown. So, there is only a choice to study, or not.

    Can a person setting and throwing the dice in a consistent manner achieve a result set that is different in some way than the expected distribution? I don't know the answer, but it seems plausible to me. I wish I had a craps table at home to test over a large sample size of throws.
     
    #207
  8. tabletop123, Jan 2, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    I have a table at home & have already done the required studies! I know EXACTLY what is going on!

    I will keep my findings confidential! The question really boils down to can YOU develop the necessary skill to influence the dice through at- home practice on a regulation table, & MOST importantly (if so), is the home skill transferable to the Casino table/s in which you play on!

    Now, here is the million dollar question........How do you "Mask" your skill so that you can plod along undetected?

    All of this nonsense about the Casinos NOT caring, or acknowleding that a player/a has the skill to beat them..........REALLY?

    The casinos are NOT in the business of allowing skilled players to beat them, no matter WHICH game you are skilled at!

    Thus far not one skilled player has been identified, & given the trespassing Act! So, if those SKILLED players actually do exist.....they are KEEPING QUIET!
     
    #208
  9. tabletop123, Jan 2, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    To all of the guys that ARE using ANY TYPE of Professional looking tosses( like GTC or Parr), UNLESS you are moving your play around.....if you are INDEED skilled with those toss techniques.......You have a huge bullseye on your back!
     
    #209
  10. KokomoJoe4, Jan 2, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Are you and yours all-knowing seers who decide what is enlightening and useful information?

    Who are all of these experts?

    Do any such other experts exist anywhere else in the world of craps?
     
    #210
  11. KokomoJoe4, Jan 2, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Regarding the peer to peer "wisdom" dispensed on this forum - never have I seen so many innumerate idiots post so much drivel. Your math skills are laughable. Your grasp of "Axis" dice influence is essentially wrong or non-existent. You guys are so weak that you don't know what you don't KNOW. All I read on this forum are posts bickering over bullshit and calling each other names. Really, why would anyone even want to visit a site that allows that?

    . You can be anyone you want to be on the Internet. You can even present yourself as an expert. [/QUOTE]

    Are you able to present yourself on the internet as a craps expert? From where does this expertise derive?

    Please explain the math of the game to we idiots. If you would like, let's also discuss the law of rigid body dynamics

    Please explain your understanding of the on-axis dice toss. This is clearly a big problem in your attempt to understand the game. LOOK at the dice at preset and again at outcome, no not in one dimension but in three. 44.4% my ass.
     
    #211
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  12. gargoil, Jan 2, 2017

    gargoil

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    Koko stirring the toilet on the second day of the new year :D
     
    #212
  13. KokomoJoe4, Jan 2, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

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    The very subject matter of this thread - that slow motion videos are the biggest nightmare of Axis shooting school - is bogus. First off, we've posted many toss videos on my forum, including my own. As mentioned further up this thread, 44% of tosses produce an on-axis result for random shooters. [/QUOTE]

    A little over 2% of all tosses end on-axis. If you understand what you are looking at in 3 dimensions at set and at outcome, it becomes painfully obvious that on-axis results are not happening.

    It is likely true that your site's slow-motion videos show nothing but on-axis outcomes. One way to ensure seeing five or so 2V or 3V sets looking pretty and ending on-axis is to shoot about 200 such shots - five of them WILL end on-axis. Just don't put the other 195 efforts online. It's called editing.

    Unedited photography supports the fact that the dice tumble all over the place. More importantly, IF you know the preset orientation, you can SEE at outcome, that the 1:3 result you just obtained shooting out of the 2V is in the vertical sixes, I mean crossed sixes, I mean 3V. Well we do know it ain't in either the hard ways or the horizontal sixes, don't we?

    All I am saying is that on-axis results are bullshit. Take it to the bank.
     
    #213
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  14. KokomoJoe4, Jan 2, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

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    I do not know the man gargoil. Never been to his site. All that I am saying is in the last post - if you know the dice, it is painfully obvious that on-axis is NOT happening.

    This can be easily and definitively seen. This does NOT mean players can not have good and even great shoots. It means ONLY that their results are NOT on-axis.
     
    #214
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  15. gargoil, Jan 2, 2017

    gargoil

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    I know Koko. Just my way of saying Happy New Year and we are back ;)
     
    #215
  16. $nakeEye$, Jan 2, 2017

    $nakeEye$

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    tt123 -

    I MUST admit that YOU are WRONG on THIS -

    THAT bullseye is on their FOREHEAD - squarely right between their eyes !

    $...eE..$
     
    #216
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  17. tabletop123, Jan 2, 2017

    tabletop123

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    I just developed a new toss & I call it the "Hilarious Harry" toss ( no bullshit), & the dice do NOT have a soft landing! They do NOT kiss the bottom lip of the pyramids!

    One thing that I have discovered is that your dice do NOT have to travel side by side in tandem!

    Yes, they should travel as a unit, but they can travel vertically also. Never hear the schools teaching a inline or vertical toss do you?

    As long as you toss to the same spot with the dice traveling the same way each time, you'll do Okay!

    I am NOT advocating Off Axis, or On Axis! Just toss the dice the same darn way & forget about the perfect rotational control bullshit!

    Wish you guys could see this "Hilarious Harry" toss! Definitely NOT pleasing to the eyes, but it's consistent, & gets the job done ( at least on the home table)!

    Gonna try it in the Casinos next week, & I GUARANDAMTEE you that it'll NEVER, EVER, have a "Suit" staring at the toss, or the phone ringing from upstairs!

    By George.............Old Top THINKS he might have created a winner!

    Hmmmm........Maybe a non-disclosure agreement is in order, huh? Naw, I wouldn't need one because most Di's would call the toss a piece of shit anyways, because its TRULY unorthodox!

    See you at the Top! On second thought, maybe I'll see you at the bottom if the toss doesn't work at the Casino, & I end up getting my nuts clipped! Lol
     
    #217
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  18. $nakeEye$, Jan 2, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    Sounds like a toss that was advocated on the old PARR forum before it bit the dust -

    They had a name for the toss - which escapes me at the moment -

    The dice were set - then picked up like a " train car " - one die in front of the other -

    When you tossed them - you rotated your wrist so the dice twirl CCW still being IN-LINE -

    One die following the other as opposed to being in tandem - or - side by side -

    Essentially, this was an initial " OFF-Axis " technique and as it was published quite a while ago -

    I also do NOT recall WHAT dice set was recommended !

    However, when the smoke finally clears -

    Suffice it to say - that it is MUCH easier to toss OFF-AXIS than to attempt to maintain the integrity of an ON-AXIS toss -

    From its inception to its completion !

    Starting with the ALL SEVEN dice set and throwing in an UNORTHODOX MANNER / CONTRARY to ALL accepted methods -

    It is EASIER to avoid the " 7-Out " more oft than not !

    $...eE..$
     
    #218
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