# off axis toss

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by rongarm10, Nov 11, 2017.

1. rongarm10, Nov 11, 2017

### rongarm10 Member

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I have asked this b4 but really have not got much of a response from u folks. Just what is meant by and "off axis" toss? Please feel free to jump rite n with your explanations. Just sayin.

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2. lone irish digit, Nov 11, 2017

### lone irish digit Member

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It's simply setting your dice in a group 1 preset (usually the all sevens set) and tossing with a random, low and hard toss hoping to break the set up into a group 2 outcome. In other words, most numerates view this as a random toss which is very easy to accomplish and doesn't wear you out physically or mentally.

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3. lone irish digit, Nov 11, 2017

### lone irish digit Member

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Wrongarm,

Please don't confuse off-axis tosses with off-axis posters although there may be a strong correlation there.

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4. rongarm10, Nov 11, 2017

### rongarm10 Member

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So by arranging the dice in an all 7 set, group 1, and then tossing a low and hard toss hoping to end up n a group 2 outcome is considered an "off-axis toss"? U can still end up with a 7 even n group 2 outcome. Even though there are only two ways of getting a 7 within a group 2 outcome. Thanks, lid I appreciate ur input. Others may also join in. Just sayin.

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5. analyst, Nov 12, 2017

### analyst Member

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I think we all find the on-axis vs off-axis theories interesting. One of the more enlightening posts I read on this forum about off-axis was the explanation/distinction between Group 1 and Group 2. If my understanding is correct, the all 7s set falls into the Group 1 arrangement category because there are twice as many ways for a 7 to appear versus the Group 2 array. The 2-v or 3-v sets for example; I think are considered as Group 2. My take away on this information is to watch the results of each die; after your toss. If those axil faces reveal a Group 1 array, take proactive measures, such as changing the toss or set. I may be completely wrong here with this assessment and it may be totally inaccurate. Just a counter measure I processed in my pea brain to avoid the 7.

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6. Mssthis1, Nov 12, 2017

### Mssthis1 Member

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Personally, every "off axis" type toss I have seen I would consider a random toss. The table and back wall are supposed to randomize the dice. The longer they are in contact with said offenders, the odds of a toss being random increase exponentially.

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7. von duck, Nov 12, 2017

### von duck Member

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How does it wear on you "phynanchully"? You know money-wise?

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8. von duck, Nov 12, 2017

### von duck Member

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So, after I toss the dice, the longer they sit on the table, the more likely it is that they will be "random"? In bubble craps, I think it's the very opposite.. TD.

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9. gargoil, Nov 12, 2017

### gargoil Member

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Okay, the notion to throw the dice as hard as you can to the back wall to try and knock off the axis to randomize the dice is ludicrous. If you want random then shake the dice and throw it to the back wall.

If you set the all seven, you want a toss that would avoid PFH. A double pitch will give you hard way. If you throw hard to the back wall then you are praying for lady luck. However this is still not off axis.

An off axis toss is when you start the toss with a slight slit in the middle with the idea of the left dice rotating on axis while the right dice goes off axis.

Of course this is my opinion and an example of how I toss. This is not a fact.

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10. lone irish digit, Nov 12, 2017

### lone irish digit Member

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Sounds a little like HRR split shot or the so-called little joe toss. Others shoot it differently like Hardley, Supperick, Full press, and LID. It's a great shot - when it works....

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11. analyst, Nov 12, 2017

### analyst Member

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If I'm honest with myself; I must confess that my tosses are random; regardless of any engineered toss or set. But that would shatter my delusional and magical thinking about having influence or control. Although long rolls of 20 or greater; appear to be as a result of shooter influence; statistics indicate that those random rolls encompass 19-21% of total rolls.

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12. lone irish digit, Nov 12, 2017

### lone irish digit Member

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I think the statistics are not the way to classify your toss as random or not. I classify my toss on how they look in the air only. After they hit, they can bounce and flip in many ways and end up close to the backwall and together and statistics or other target based criteria would say it was a controlled toss when in your heart you know it was a random toss. I think if you actually toss over 20% of all of your tosses in a non random manner then you are a world beater.

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13. DeMango, Nov 12, 2017

### DeMango Member

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If I could have 20+ roll hands, 20% of the time, I would be one wealthy feller.

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14. TDVegas, Nov 12, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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1 out of 5 hands are 20+....?

I think I would have my own island by now.

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15. Dave G Ct, Nov 12, 2017

### Dave G Ct Member

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As to Off Axis advice I tend to go into the bend and gently break up the PFH axles. Take 4 out of the 6 ways to make a 7

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16. analyst, Nov 12, 2017

### analyst Member

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As an example: in the book; '7,500' rolls the total rolls of 20 or greater than 20 were 1,603: not 1,603 shooters.

1603 rolls (20 or greater) as a percent of 7,500 total rolls = 21%. So, the way I explained the stat was wrong. I hope this is now clearer. Interesting that this same stat was consistent with the in sample data and another out of sample data.

I should have clarified; while at the same time trying to make 'something' out of 'nothing'? -)

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17. rongarm10, Nov 12, 2017

### rongarm10 Member

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Dave what does PFH stand for? Just sayin.

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18. rongarm10, Nov 12, 2017

### rongarm10 Member

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Gargoil when tossing the dice UH, can one still try tossing the dice with a slight slit in the middle as u mentioned above? Not really sure as to how to keep the dice "on axis vs off axis" when they hit the landing area and then the back wall. I believe that most people want the dice to land "on axis" to perhaps get a good #. Just sayin.

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19. gargoil, Nov 12, 2017

### gargoil Member

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Yes u can. I will be back home in a few days and I will post some details on what you can try with a pic of how to grip the dice.

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20. rongarm10, Nov 12, 2017

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