Newbies... Play to LOSE for a change

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by SevenOut, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. SevenOut, Mar 3, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    What is it with all of this Winning at the Craps Table? At best, it is temporary and worth writing about the experience in your Craps Memory Book.

    - First of all, everyone should understand the Pass and Don't Pass side of Craps.
    - Secondly, everyone should understand Correct Odds and how to manipulate Place Bets at a 2X Table.
    - Thirdly, WHY the concentration on Winning? When, many are losing in the process.

    If you have had a losing streak... why keep continuing with the same game plan? You are Playing to Lose.

    At any Craps Table, nothing says you cannot make counter intuitive wagers. Each Player has a mental image of how to wager at a Craps Table. That has become your worst enemy... playing the same System over and over expecting different results.

    Do not practice this at a live Craps Table with Bankroll. Do this off the table with a dice cup and the small felt Craps Layout that sells for under $18. Mix up your game. Pass for Point, odds. Place several wagers, A Don't Come flat wager. A hardway protected by a Place or Don't Come number already working. Make it an elaborate "Doey Don't".

    TRY to LOSE... for once. You obviously have perfected the Playing to Win much too often and losing in the process.

    This is not to be taken lightly. You are already in possession of above average intelligence just reading Threads on this Forum.

    Sure Dice Setting is enough to give one a massive headache, but if you work on just sets that focus on what you are wagering, that is a start. Even if you have only a vague concept, just work on a random set that you think looks good and shoot. If you are not the shooter... who cares. The majority are Dice Chuckers and produce good and bad Outcomes in the Process. So play on the 'Good' and the 'Bad' with smart play.

    Dice Bias... with the this elaborate Doey Don't... it makes no sense to protect yourself from... the Bogey Man.

    It is not your Bankroll amount, that makes you lose. Play a $100 bankroll in proportion to what a $500 bankroll would. You play to win by Percentage of Bankroll... not totals. Once you have that figured out... you are on your way to the La La Land framed photo on the wall at your favorite Casino.

    There is no status in losing $500 in ten minutes at any Craps Table...

    What is the purpose of this Thread? If you do not know, get back to the basics. Mix up your wagers. A Don't Pass 4 or 10 'feel' safer than a Don't Pass 6 or 8. Keep the Don't Pass 4 or 10 and move the Don't Pass 6 or 8, even if not the best move percentage wise... or make a Hard 6 or 8 to balance a hard way win on the Don't Pass wager.

    Sound like a deranged flea bitten Craps Degenerate? NO, not yet. But now you are getting the idea that try out some changes. Even take a win, press... take the next win, put onto the Don't Come as a flat bet and churn the table a little bit more.

    This doing it over and over and over with the same Lame System, may be easier... but when you have to keep track of your wagers and the dealer paying out on them... you are one among the many.

    No one has the secret to Craps Success. So, try something else out. Work it out at HOME FIRST... and then get a few Sessions at a table. It is only money that your relatives will not inherit if you lose. They can get their own from working a couple more years.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  2. TDVegas, Mar 3, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Ha...not if I peruse various craps forums, including quite a few right here.

    Let's see....Just off the top of my head..
    -James Hall
    -Superrick
    -Harley
    -Gargoil
    -$nakeEyes
    -Linaway
    -Driglaz
    -VDC
    -Dice Thug
    -Obie
    -Six shooter
    -Howard RR
    -Heavy

    I've probably missed a few....
    And that's just those who have been here at one time or another.

    Feel free to add to the list of "Craps Success"...
     
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  3. HornHighBLEVE, Mar 3, 2017

    HornHighBLEVE

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    I'm an innumerate...

    ...but I know it.

    Thus then, my reason for being here.
     
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  4. SevenOut, Mar 3, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    *******

    That is not your case.

    It is not your... responsibility... to understand what others are doing at a Craps Table. But be conscious of WHAT they are doing... they may be doing Post #1.

    I played at the Fiesta Casino last week. A player on each end were playing Black and Green chips. This is a $3 table with 10X odds. Sometimes $300 to $400 Odds and playing ALL six numbers with $25 on the ends and $50, $60 in the middle numbers.

    I quit after losing $79 with an original Bankroll of $200, with my break even money working on the table, with a Seven Out. I was gone. The big player on the opposite end bought in for another $1000.

    I know the kind of game they were 'hoping for'... hitting everything from 4 to 10 as often as possible... but, not this game. It was time to catch our Lunch Buffet that cost me $79 for a 2 for 1 Buffet. Plus the cost of one Buffet.

    Is life fair at the Craps Table? The table does not care one way or the other. Every System will Fail. Every pressing up wagers expecting a longer roll... will Fail. If not, the table would be full and the same players will die of old age... winning.

    If you buy a Municipal Bond at 4.1% annual interest... and you make $20 on a $100 Bankroll game and quit, you have outperformed the Bond, which is a safe investment. If you do not think that way... you will be Playing to Lose.
     
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  5. TDVegas, Mar 3, 2017

    TDVegas

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    I fully understand I'll never have a big win playing craps. My betting limits are much too small coupled with low house edge wagers. I also fully understand there have been many times that had I been betting with green and black chips...I would have walked with a +$1,000 win.

    I also fully understand that in order to hope for those kind of wins I will need to commit to a much higher bankroll and betting limits.

    I also fully understand that this is not tennis or golf or bowling. Practice does not make a player better. You are at the mercy of a slow or swift stream (depending on your house edge wagers). It doesn't stop. Maybe 5% will catch a break over their lifetime and somehow magically be net ahead. Doubtful but not impossible.

    We ALL play this game recreationally. Some just can't allow themselves to admit that. It doesn't mean we don't want to win. It doesn't mean we are reckless. It doesn't mean we are like.....cringe....tourists who don't care. It doesn't mean we don't set limits on time or money. It just means we have a healthy understanding of reality. I personally, enjoy the game....and I don't play to lose. I just play to win less. Changing that philosophy will put more of my money in Frank Fertitta's wallet.

    If one needs to self delude to play craps....self delude. The casino will get what they want.

    Next time I play I'm going to try the KKJ method....when I'm up, commit to bigger bets and progress. My only issue is where is my end point? If it takes me back to even...I leave. Where is my win limit? A percentage of bankroll? A made up number in my head?
     
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  6. TDVegas, Mar 3, 2017

    TDVegas

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    Maybe I should just seek out a short busser and "learn how to bet this game"....

    whatever that means.

    I think the last time I took advice was years ago when I was sitting at the roulette table and some lurker said "throw a couple on 5-7-9-10".....I casually did. It happened to hit.

    Then he wanted his "cut"....:confused:
     
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  7. Twelve4s, Mar 3, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    What did he want, half?
     
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  8. TDVegas, Mar 3, 2017

    TDVegas

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    He wasn't specific. He just wanted something.

    My response...."get lost."

    He was a cheerful guy...came off as helping the table, having some fun by recommending picks..but a scam artist. Downtown. Figures.

    That was my get acquainted to Vegas and every shyster offering you something. Now?....I don't even hear them to say no thanks. Just keep walking.

    Living here...one learns fast or becomes a dupe.
     
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  9. TyB

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    Betting systems do work, in the SHORT/VERY SHORT run. The longer you play, the more you're prone to losing obviously from house edge. From personal experience, I use the Martingale at a $5 craps table but I'm only there for about 20 minutes. I get up $100 and then I'm out. My friends who play all night 4/5 times complain about going ahead early, then losing it all within the next 3 hours. It's different for everybody, yes, one can ride a winning streak, but the house always wins in the end, the house wins sooner if you're not smart of course as well.

    And I hear ya! The "beginners" are suckers, who don't know strategy and don't know how to implement a system...those are the players the casino loves!!

    I do have curiosity about the Iron cross, etc. Maybe I'll try it next time I'm at Bally's A.C. I'm a "Don't Pass" kind of better; a simple better, and don't bother with field, hard bets, comes, etc.
     
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  10. Liman

    Liman Member

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  11. Liman

    Liman Member

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    I remember some drunk standing near a table in AC years ago shouting to everyone, play the seven, bet the seven, and whenever a seven came in, hed yell, see, I told ya so, whats wrong with you people, bet the seven, bet the seven.
     
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  12. Twelve4s, Mar 3, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    Was this the guy?

    IMG_4647.JPG
     
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  13. far out, Mar 3, 2017

    far out

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    Yes, I remember such a thing when I played at one table. This guy then was pushing the sevens with a short success but he was gone shortly too!
    far out
     
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  14. Twelve4s, Mar 3, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    Gone, as in removed by security?
     
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  15. far out, Mar 3, 2017

    far out

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    No, He started losing badly and left under his own power, sad! I have seen bettors hit on long shots and make a quick few hundred in chips but whether they return and lose it, I don't know.
    far out
     
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  16. TDVegas, Mar 3, 2017

    TDVegas

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    No betting "system" overcomes house edge. Variance allows us to win. Luck. Nothing more. That could come quickly...and you win. Or if you commit more quickly while your friends play more conservative...you could bust out if the dice don't behave early while they still have bankroll. Luck might come later in the session. You already went home.
    Not entirely correct. House edge is there short OR long term. Money risked is the factor, not time. $100 risked in 5 minutes has no better chance to win than $100 risked over an hour.
    I'm big on win and loss limits as opposed to time. If you are using a true martingale...eventually the piper will come calling. Losing 5-6 bets in a row on a don't pass or pass is not that uncommon. I would have sent you packing not long ago.;) That's a point 5 made and five 7 come out winners.
    image.jpeg

    Just about everyone has a strategy or system. It might be good or not good..but that's simply based on the math. Any bet that hits is good. From a strictly math point of view...the don't pass is the best.
    Don't pass carries a 1.36% house edge...lowest on the table beyond odds. It's a good bet but like any bet is prone to ups and downs. There is no magic formula to overcome house edge. Even with this great strategy...you're still expected to lose.

    If you're winning with it...kudos. If you're that confident---up the limits. I would. It's money. Then again, eventually a true martingale will result in a catastrophic loss. Winning and or losing sequences happen more than most think it will.
     
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  17. Onautopilot, Mar 4, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    All you have to do to prove this, is to run some sims!
     
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  18. Onautopilot, Mar 4, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    When I was dealing, the most often heard exclamation from the system players was...."But it worked so good at home!". :)
     
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  19. Twelve4s, Mar 4, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    If Koko sees this, there might be another convert. Talk about a parlay!
     
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  20. basicstrategy777, Mar 4, 2017

    basicstrategy777

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    The textbook answer to the question.....what's the best way to win 100 dollars..... is not as TD stated. A single bet or an over time bet are not the same RE: your best chance to win.

    777
     
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