Modify your System, not your Shooting...

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by SevenOut, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. SevenOut, Feb 13, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I am interested in Craps, not as a profession or creating a 'cash flow' to pay expenses at home, but as a recreational option. Much like a skier, cruise fan or own your own small aircraft to do 'touch and goes' at the local Strip.

    Most often, I am not the shooter at any table when I buy in and when I quit and color up... if I have winnings or have had enough exposure to a give and take experience at the table.

    The Fiesta Station Casino has a $3 minimum with 10X odds. I played there 2-12-2017 and bought in for $200, but was playing a $100 System of Play. This kind of table is absolutely perfect for the 75% of Players, like myself. Recreational Player. Knowledgable of Craps. Understands pressing wagers. Understands how to take wins off the table. Understands when to quit with a profit, when the dice begin moving from one shooter to another with short rolls.

    Not wanting to spend hours to practice Dice Setting..., but do understand the possibilities and potential advantage(s).

    Living in the Las Vegas casino market... my wife and I can play anywhere, anytime and at will. For a Compulsive Gambler... this is NOT the place to be living. You will be broke and homeless in a short period of time.

    The Full Monte is still the basic System used, but now I do not wager as strongly after the Come Out. I will take a profit on a hit, and the next hit, press up a Place Bet or Hardway with House 'money'.

    Some Dice Chuckers do pay off well for me. Last evening the first shooter was Dice Chucking two Hard Sixes and two Hard Eights. After the next shooter did the Wham Bam Thank You Mam and the next not much better... I quit $119.00 ahead.

    Hit and Run strategy for living in an area 'infested with Casinos'.

    ... and if a Dice Setter is actually producing, I am aware of what is happening immediately and can use their hours, days and years of practice to MY ADVANTAGE. A Win / Win situation for those of us who are observant and following the Dice.

    You do get rusty not playing at least once a week. Maybe twice if you like punishment. With a win, you can afford to get back at a table. Today... we get a Two for One Buffet. My wife found a new variety of Video Poker she likes, and I will try the same 'modified' Full Monte System but adapted to a $3 table with 10X Odds.

    This is great if the dice are losing table rules. Great if the table is winning, rules. Even playing $3 Fire Bets but not even getting close last evening to getting three.

    If you are not enjoying the Craps Table... take a breather. I do this more often than most.

    Real people have real results to report. No body at this table with seven or eight were making BIG bank. Just that give and take, but a string of Hardways with $5 flat bets raises the bankroll quicker than the $6 or $12 Six or Eight Place Bets. In combination... great.

    I am absolutely sick of this constant background noise of DI, DC and DS rhetoric. Back off on the push, push and forcing trash talk to convert minds. It does not work. Winning works at the table, not on a Thread. Give it a break. I did and now am enjoying this small winnings and am going back to see what happens again.
     
    #1
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  2. TDVegas, Feb 14, 2017

    TDVegas

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    This applies to everyone, whether they want to admit it or not. A serious player IS a recreational player. Their goals are the same and he's fighting the exact same edge as the recreational guy. Plus, both want to win. They both play to win---whatever that means. Some just cannot be labeled as recreational. It hurts their feelings. Now if we want to separate the two based on win/loss limits, time gambling or the bets they choose to make...then we can debate the serious or recreational player.
    For sure. Anyone coming here thinking they will be in the casino 4-5 days a week gambling is in for a bit of a punch in the face. I see the retirees at Red Rock with disposable income flushing it. For them there isn't a big problem. They can't take it with them. The younger people, still funding IRA's, retirement, kids college, etc...spending a lot of time in the casino? They are in for a rude awakening.
    Absolutely. I'll be in and out sometimes. Without win and loss limits, you're going to give more, IMO.
     
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  3. SevenOut, Feb 14, 2017

    SevenOut

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    Yesterday afternoon at the Sunset Station Casino in Henderson, NV, I played at the Craps Table for less than 20 minutes.

    The early loss and then later gains were mostly left on the table as I tried to increase my wins, before I made my "Hit and Run" with a profit.

    I ended up leaving the table with a $20 profit. I thought I had marked my $200 Bankroll with a $25 hold on my winnings...but missed it by one $5 chip. My mistake. Colored up and left to cash the chips at the Cashier.

    This paid for our Two for One Buffet, my wife played a new variant of Video Poker and we made a good couple of hours at the Casino.

    Twenty Dollars is $20. More than the dealer's were making at the table on the clock.

    This is how a Las Vegas local resident works with the Casino. The Casino offers perks to get you in and watch your play to offer more perks in the future. If you win or lose... you are on the 'active list'. You are being tracked for Buffets and 'free' Valentine chocolates with your Player's Card.

    If I go bowling for... 'free', which we will be maybe this week, another way the Casino gets us into their network.

    Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose... but these are 'real stories' and not fabricated wins of thousands of dollars in Craps wins every week, by some.
     
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  4. TDVegas, Feb 14, 2017

    TDVegas

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    Darn it...I missed the free chocolates yesterday.
     
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  5. SevenOut, Feb 4, 2018

    SevenOut

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    There is much, too much, attention to the Dice Control Thread. Many should not even be near a Craps Table, if this is all you have remaining to improve your Craps Game.

    I am a great Craps Spectator, watching experienced Players. I learn nothing by practicing setting dice and develop a consistent release of a pair of dice to the opposite end of a Craps Table. So what...???

    If you do not understand that you need to take profit off the Craps Table after a win, you will have an expensive education at the Craps School of Hard Knocks. You will be pan handling on the street, sooner than later.

    Taking 'WINS off the Table' is a concept that seems to be missing. This discourages 'chasing' numbers AFTER they have hit one, twice or four times and you are picking your ass and watching some newbie cashing out after the roll is finished.

    Craps is simple. Wager only on the numbers that are hitting... Just which numbers are being tossed in the future, is the impossible part. Only those who participate with the Dice Influencing and Dice Control, predict future outcomes. And with a lack of consistency, at best.

    I watch, closely, those who wager on ALL Point Numbers. Press, when they hit and collect wins ONLY on the Pass Line and Odds Wagers. Many SET the Dice as a Superstition or as a DI/DC. A sure way to financial disaster. Many have not thought out WHEN to take a profit and lock it up into their Chip Rack. Poor money management and ignorant about having a solid Craps System.

    A Multi-Millioniare does not Shoot Craps to become Rich at the tables. They shoot Craps because it is so difficult to BEAT the Game. It is a challenge to their 'Easy Money'.

    Spend some time and review some of the 'old posts' concerning System Play. Then learn to press up wagers and pull wagers down to a minimal flat wager. Play some Hard Ways. Toss out an occasional one roll wager when you are using 'House Money', and lets not debate House Money is Your Money BS... It is ALL House Money when you are standing at the table like a fool wondering what happened to all of your earlier winnings.

    These 'pissing contests of personality' are a total waste of your time, my time and the Forum's Time. When someone does, or claims or says he is making big 'bank' shooting Craps... he obviously is not making that much money and has little invested personally in investments, outside the Casino Floor. Many are Degenerates who are always expecting the 'next game' to be the success story. Many make it all up. It is a Fairy Tale.

    Craps will not provide you with an Income for Life. It will destroy your savings. It will ruin your marriage, if not already. It is a Game of Chance, not a Business Opportunity. Discover a System First... and watch a Live Craps Table to see how the dice would treat your game. If it never does well, watching... try something better. You are still among the... idiots.
     
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  6. TDVegas, Feb 4, 2018

    TDVegas

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    Why am I hearing Glen Campbell's "By the time I get to Phoenix"...?
    ;):)
     
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  7. tabletop123, Feb 4, 2018

    tabletop123

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    THAT is what I'm talking about. EXCELLENT post. If you think you are gonna shoot your way to riches with JUST your toss.....you are in for some serious heartache.

    Most guys that practice Dice Influencing have no earthly clue that almost ALL of their tosses are random. They just can't seem to understand that concept.

    Nowadays, I toss dice at home if I am working on a new toss, & I periodically visit G's house to toss a few.

    Other than that.....No practice. The newbie Di's are very enthusiastic because it's something new to them.
    Those that have been at this Dice Influencing thingy for a while realize that there's nothing new under the sun.
    You simply have to decide what's important. Winning money by playing for keeps, & then leaving the Casino, or keep thinking that because you practice your toss, you can just press, press, press, & stay at the table FOREVER...tossing the dice.

    As James stated....there are different levels of influence, but even at the highest level.....youre still basically random. Most won't admit it!

    Man......I used to absolutely love tossing the dice during the beginning. Now, I realize that playing smart, setting a loss limit, & hauling ass after a decent win is the best route to take.

    If you cannot CONSISTENTLY repeat numbers, or CONSISTENTLY toss 8-12 roll hands....ya might want to re-evaluate this Dice Influencing thingy.
    After almost 10 years of practice....I CANNOT do it. I STILL try, but I also realize the limitations of Dice Influencing, & I proceed accordingly.

    Has nothing to do with lack of confidence. Either ya have the skill, or ya don't.......I DON'T!, & personally....I think a lot of Di's are just kidding themselves.

    However, I wish EVERYONE well, because I ain't no hater!
     
    #7
  8. James Hall, Feb 4, 2018

    James Hall

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    that is all you took out of that post ?
    how about ? Dice Influencing and Dice Control, predict future outcomes
     
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  9. James Hall, Feb 4, 2018

    James Hall

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    yeah that sucks , no candy
     
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  10. James Hall, Feb 4, 2018

    James Hall

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    I love that song , By the time I get to phoenix
     
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  11. James Hall, Feb 4, 2018

    James Hall

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    Well I agree with TDV on one thing here , Don't play too much , play when you are sharp
    stay away from the tables otherwise Of course I am agreeing with both TDV and Seven out
     
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  12. James Hall, Feb 4, 2018

    James Hall

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    One thing tht everybody needs to understand is you shoud never limit yourself to one facet of the game
    It TAKES TWO THINGS TO WIN , I have repeated constantly
    you cannot win by rolling numbers alone
    Two things must happen , you MUST have ample numbers produced to win
    You must have a betting strategy that will allow you to capitalize on those numbers
    You can't win without numbers , numbers are useless without a workable betting strategy
    those are facts
     
    #12
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  13. twodicebilly, Feb 5, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    james


    Very very true.

    AS your know I don't use an on axis toss. I can but the tables here are not
    so good for that.

    Friday night I started with a 6/4 4/6 set. I made a small adjustment where
    the dice were landing on the table and had a 7 roll hand, ending in 6/1

    Next time I got the dice my set was 4/6/ 6/4 and again had short roll with
    1/6 seven.

    Next time I got the dice I used a 2/6 4/2 which is a quarter turn of the
    front die.... I had 4 points and 21 rolls and used that set the rest of the
    session. that quarter turn takes the basic set from a vertical 6 to a
    crossed 6 start. The first sets gives you 4/6/6/4 in the tossing plane
    the second is 2/6 6/4.
    Your right, your toss does not have to be perfect, it just has to show some
    ability to repeat outcomes and then small adjustments can take advantage
    of what your doing. Nobody can throw enough numbers to win, you need to
    make as much as you can on the numbers you do throw.

    twodicebilly
     
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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  14. James Hall, Feb 5, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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  15. James Hall, Feb 5, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    TwoDB
    When you gt some time take a look at my hard 6 hard 8 set
    Set the inline / horizontal 6 set with the 6s on top and the twos facing then clickvert. / on axis the right die one surface vertically
    so you see the 2 on top , then turn the right die horizontally 120 degrees so you the right die with a 2 on top and a 6 facing
    In other words set the dice so that the left die has 6 up 2 facing and the right die has 2 up and 6 facing
    Turning the dice 360 horizontally / on axis you will see only 6s and 8s On the inside you will find a hard 8 and on the outside abides the hard 6
    If my dice when I throw them are both coming off axis from inside to the top I get hard 8s
    if they both go off axis from the outside to the top I get hard 6s
    Because as they say it is difficut to keep them off axis what I will do is encourage both to leave the axis in different directions
    and many times , "BAM" those triple hard ways appear from time to time , "BAM"
    Take a look at it
     
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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  16. twodicebilly, Feb 5, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    James

    I understand your theory, it has been so long since I worked with the
    on axis or GTC shot I am not sure I can make any of the dice do anything
    I want, but I will give that a shot.

    MY buddy shoots GTC and he always uses the hard way set to get
    hard ways....but hardly ever gets them. he liked to parley them.

    You can throw the dice anyway you want as long as you if you can bet
    according to your shot.... if you can get the hard ways.... and can
    parley... that can make you some money.


    tdb
     
    #16
  17. Edward-ky, Feb 5, 2018

    Edward-ky

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    I thought the harrahs in mexico was the only casino with dice that had a hard 5 on them.
     
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  18. James Hall, Feb 5, 2018

    James Hall

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    typo hard 6 thanks I will correct it
    I was in New Mexico sometime back , I am not aware of a Harrah's in New Mexico , do you play there
    I play at Harrah's in Vegas when I go there , are the tables in New Mexico and Nevada similar in bounce characteristic?
    Is that casino near Cloud Croft?
     
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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  19. twodicebilly, Feb 6, 2018

    twodicebilly

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    James


    When you are using your set for hard ways... does the double pitch affect
    profitability of your play when your not getting hard ways???


    tdb
     
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  20. James Hall, Feb 6, 2018

    James Hall

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    I get a lot of 6s and 8s with that set , like anything else it doesn't work all the time but when it does
    it works really well As a rule my sevens come from single pitches and more times than not they will be the 2--5 seven
    Throw it some on your table at home and see what it will do for you
     
    #20