Las Vegas Retirement Trap?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Dave G Ct, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. TDVegas, Nov 13, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    While it certainly is a fact there are poker professionals making a living playing poker...and some a VERY good living.

    Blackjack card counters can try to make a living but the casino industry has done just about everything possible to make their play impossible...and miserable.

    I will assume there are a few sports handicappers out there that are plying their trade. Very, very few.

    Craps, roulette, slots....no chance IMO.

    I can try a grind play and in fact my play is essentially a grind play. I can play 5 days a week if I really wanted, stick to the lowest house edge on craps...just look for very small gains and exit. It's not going to work, IMO.

    I could go the other route with a full 99% martingale and somehow hope, pray, rabbits foot, etc. or the man above excludes that 1% loser from my play.

    In any case, I don't believe it's possible to "make regular bank" in craps. I can certainly keep it close...and I do. But that's about it. A martingale wil ensure regular bank but the obvious caveat applies.

    I could see certain people playing 10-12-15 times a year and having a net ahead year. But ultimately I think that is just a luck of the draw. A willingness to "chase" might even help in this case.

    Where comps enter in is a different story and with enough buy in and play...A big player could probably squeeze out some decent comps. But, dinners, rooms, plane rides, swag aren't paying the cell phone bill. You would need cash from them. The thing they least like to part with.

    Am I surprised a proclaimed DI who moved here...has to work a regular job out here? Of course not.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  2. Craps Poopshoot, Nov 13, 2017

    Craps Poopshoot

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    The few people I know who thrive in the casinos rarely play Craps. Mostly you get zero comps/little points for Craps play and the grind at craps is much harder than at other games. So, a hot table all the locals come running to buy in, but as soon as the table cools off they go back to whatever they like to grind at - pai gow and baccarat mostly.

    The serious video poker players only show up on those 6X or higher multiplier days. Points accumulated and cashed along with free play can become lucrative.
     
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  3. von duck, Nov 13, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Yeah, you can "go" anywhere you want, but I'd recommend, at least 10 paces, from your bed roll, and down wind. Nothin like campin out, to stretch your bankroll. :).
     
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  4. von duck, Nov 13, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Having a regular "JOB" provides good cover, makes you look like a regular guy, even I hold down a regular job. :D
     
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  5. Liman

    Liman Member

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    card counting is 10 times harder today in blackjack as it was years ago.
    this I was told by a retired card counter in his late 70s, who was banned from many casinos for his and his buddies skills.
    They don't play much anymore.
    I don't have to post what we discussed on dice setting, but that's a different thread.

    He doesn't join chat boards, he doesn't chat about anything casino related. I caught him at a family event, I just asked what he thought, he really doesn't talk about the good ole days much.

    he did volunteer hes playing more poker these days told me I should learn how to play casino poker, told me its ripe for any decent player.
     
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  6. The Midnight Skulker, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:30 PM

    The Midnight Skulker

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    We had summer camp at on-a-clear-day-you-can-see-forever Fort Irwin the last three years I spent in the California Army National Guard. Once each year there was a deluge that sent everyone dashing for cover. Didn't take long for creeks to find their way through the tents. The rain stopped after about 20 minutes, and about 30 minutes after that the last of the water vanished without a trace and we continued building our pontoon bridge on the dry-again sand. :confused:
     
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  7. Craps Poopshoot, Nov 15, 2017 at 8:01 AM

    Craps Poopshoot

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    You cant win if you won't grind!
    The poker players talk all the time about grinding. Brutal long hours in the poker rooms grinding away. Most hope for a few hundred in profit per session, but will take anything they can get. Very few people can actually put in the long hours that are required to actually grind and thrive on Poker.

    Sports betting is tough these days, the lines and payouts are nothing like they use to be. A good handicapper, who actually does the work, can do well enough to grind the wins they need. A lot of work goes in to sports betting, and most won't put in the work!

    Double deck blackjack at $25 or higher a bet is still the go to game for grinders. There are plenty of people who still make bank from the blackjack tables.

    Baccarat and Pai gow are the #1 grind games and are mostly dominated by the Las Vegas/Las Angeles Asians who will easily spend 6 to 8 hours grinding at a table.

    Craps and Roulette are traditional grind games however are not popular with the Asians. I still see players grind at Roulette, I watch a NA guy for a while at Harrahs grind at Roulette, however it is becoming uncommon to see a Roulette grinder. Craps grinders are even more rare, though I do see them from time to time. To grind at Roulette and Craps one still has to put in the hours like any other grinding and most NA people are not going to do that.

    My humble opinion is this:
    Westerners, that us who are raised in North America culture, irregardless ancestry, are impatient. Very few North Americans will grind and most come to the tables with the slot machine mentality where the player expects to hit big or go bust, and you see this in the blitz of bets that most players make, and the short times at the tables.

    So, if you are not willing to Grind, and put the time in; you will lose with the slot machine mentality. I think TDVegas sees a lot of this type of person at the tables/Bubble, the slot machine mentality type of person, and his opinions are formed from that, and rightly so.
     
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  8. The Midnight Skulker, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:14 AM

    The Midnight Skulker

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    If you pay close attention you will notice that the World Series of Poker TV shows condense many hours of tournament play into an hour's show. (How often you see the same dealer at a table?) The elimination of all the uninteresting hands gives the impression that action is non-stop for each individual player. As any decent player who has played even a casual serious session knows, this is hardly the case. I remember a weekend get-together where it was three hours before I played a hand. Cash games and tournaments are a far cry from the matchstick game at the kitchen table for sure. As reportedly said by many of the pros, "It's a tough way to make an easy living."

    I know another cab driver who thought he had found the goose that laid gold eggs in the sports betting lounge. He experienced the worst case scenario on his first spread: he won big. No more driving cab for him; when he had a sure thing he would head for Jackpot, NV, the closest gambling venue, and spend the day watching his teams -- he played multi-game baseball tickets -- bring home his bacon...or so was his plan. Alas the Deities of the Diamond did not smile upon him for very long and he was forced to return to the airport cab line.

    Poker and sports betting are the two gambling activities where players are competing against humans and not the math. The math is what it is, and to defeat it a player must change the foundation on which the math of a game is built: visual ballistics in Roulette, dice influencing in Craps, card counting in Blackjack (and perhaps other card games). When betting on sports a player "only" need be better at predicting the outcome of a contest than the handicapper who sets the odds/spread, and the handicapper is setting those odds/spreads not on a prediction of the outcome of the contest, rather on a prediction of what is required to divide the betting on the contest evenly. Poker is as much psychological as it is mathematical; successful players have to "read" both what their opponents have and what the reader can make them think he/she has.

    Casinos also create an atmosphere to keep players playing. We are all familiar with the Dumb Shit Spray at the door, but they also use other, more subtle techniques. The following excerpt is from an article I wrote for Casino City Times some years back titled Where Has All My Money Gone? (Long Time Passing.)

    Even knowledgeable and experienced players have had occasion to sing variations of the Pete Seeger song suggested by this article's title. The sights, the sounds, the beverages, and according to some reports, even the air in a casino are designed to make time and money fade from consciousness. There are no clocks or windows to indicate the time of day, so that good run that one remembers having just a few minutes ago may actually have occurred a few hours ago. The substitution of tokens, credits, and most recently, pay slips for coin of the realm introduces not only another layer of obscurity between those objects and their value, but also another layer of inconvenience to obtaining that value (by having to redeem them at the cashier's cage).​

    I understand the redemption issue has been addressed with kiosks since I wrote this article. AFAIK, however, chips must still be taken to the cage. Continuing ...

    Casinos also try to make "in here" seem much more attractive than "out there." In my experience, most casinos accomplish this by selling fun: the good times are "in here;" "out there" is reality. Other casinos sell respect: "in here" I'm Mr. S.; "out there" I'm not even a number. Still other casinos (by far the minority) challenge me to prove I'm a real gambler, which of course I can do only by owning the joint before going "out there" and admitting defeat. Regardless of the technique employed, its purpose is to keep me, the player, playing.​
     
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  9. TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    I could also write a little article on the nuances of the casino business...how they get you in the door, how they hold you there. It's like a well oiled machine...or as Chic Anderson might say:

    They're on the turn, and the casino is blazing along! The first three-quarters of a mile in 1:09 and four fifths. The casino is widening now! He is moving like a tremendous machine! The casino by twelve, the casino by fourteen....!
     
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  10. von duck

    von duck Member

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    If you want to make more sleeping room in your car, I'm in the market for a craps table.:D
     
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  11. FredP

    FredP Member

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    poop 3.jpg
     
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  12. FredP

    FredP Member

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  13. Liman

    Liman Member

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    I remember seeing david Brenner do a show in vegas, must have been early 80s, he said something like if you were betting your stereo on this roll, and your TV set on that roll, no one would ever play again, whats a few green chips, I have a big pile of them right now, throw some more on that roll.......

    ofcourse, when he said it, it was funny.bet a fridge here, a dishwasher there, my florida trip next roll....
     
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  14. von duck

    von duck Member

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    This is definitely your good side Ma'am, I mean Gargoyle, I mean Ma'am.:).
     
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  15. von duck

    von duck Member

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    This new "Glamour shot" of you, should serve to convince the forum, that you and Gargoyle, are definitely, one and the same, Ma'am. :).
     
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  16. Settingcanthurt, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:19 PM

    Settingcanthurt

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    Yea way too much frivolous banter at the pro tables to be serious poker. It's all staged. For instance you can bet that if Helmouth is playing he will bet big on anything and be outraged when he loses blaming whoever out played his stupid bet. Looks too much like Ted Cruise to take seriously, or cruise looks like him. o_O
     
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  17. Settingcanthurt, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:32 PM

    Settingcanthurt

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    This is only possible today with the installation of ATM's in the casino's. After all what did they do before them? Offer credit? Limited. They fleece all they can and want them to leave and come back with more money. Now they empty the whole account on the spot.
    I once (only once you may have seen more) upon entering the casino there were three or four employees escorting a nicely dressed lady out with all her clothes on racks. About three of them piled high with suitcases and filled with expensive looking dresses and coats. She was walking along with her stuff balling her eyes out smearing her mascara all over her face.
    I thought to myself... Well at least they are escorting her out of the main entrance and kept walking to the check in.
    Knowing this probably happens a lot.
     
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