Is this an example of Dice Control???

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by TR31, Apr 9, 2017.


  1. Druck

    Druck Member

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    TDV - I do have my own methods on looking for certain upside combinations before pushing the button. TDV

    OAP - After playing the bubble, and watching a couple people trying to "influence" the dice, I believe it might be easier to do that on the bubble machine verses the live table. OAP


    The above are my thoughts as well. I'm guessing that TR31 is winning more than losing. Could just be the short term variance - but that's all we have to come out with the $$$$$. With a lots of rolls / results in a short amount of time, I can trick myself into thinking that I control the dice or reels.


    TR31 has a lot more time spent observing, I think he's winning. Just needs to up his wagers. Take the frickin' Money!!!!!
     
    #61
  2. TDVegas, Apr 12, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Absolutely.

    The issue with TR31 are some of his claims (70% rolling 7's after employing his "nuke option" to wipe out an "opponent".....that has me questioning his credibility on his other claims.

    Once it starts sounding too good to be true...well, you understand. It bleeds into other claims.

    BI, bubble influence has JUST as much credibility or non credibility as DI. Since neither has been shown to work on any kind of live, controlled demo....both fall under the same umbrella of doubt.

    You can't cherry pick reasons for either working better (or even working) without actually showing it works.

    It's 2 claims...different versions of craps. One can believe one version is "influence-able"....but he only has his own data (or reasoning) to support this. Those choosing to "just believe" is fine...but some of the claims get pretty outrageous at times.
     
    #62
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
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  3. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    This was a $120 bet that got me $177 on a 7 out. You can believe anything you want. $1,000 divided by 8 machines is $125, on average, per machine. One guy betting $60 on pass & don't pass (come & don't come) with full 2X odds will have will have $1,080 on the two machines after three "points".

    Believe what you want to believe, but don't be like TD, the village idiot of this website.


    image.jpeg
     
    #63
  4. eagleeye2, Apr 13, 2017

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Druck,

    I;'d keep my "Secrets" to myself, as several Casino's have removed those Bubbles that allow the shooter to ''Push the Button", with those that Push it for you.

    Now as the Dice, in the Bubbles, have Computer Chips in them, Casino's likely have control over the timing used to ""Shoot the Dice"", (on those machines) enabling them to ""increase their House Edge on the Bubble."

    eagleeye2
     
    #64

  5. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    1. In live Craps, they change the dice often to keep rolls random. In bubble Craps, the dice can remained unchanged for "months" and the felt is worn. Circus Circus had the worst maintained game in Reno.

    2. New dice are slick and roll off the felt, each die roll off against the other die, and they to tumble (a lot) when they land. Worn dice tend to lean, roll less often, tumble less often when they land, e.g. tend to stick when they land.

    3. If you sit down and press your knee against the cabinet, you can feel the vibration of the motor that sets off the vibrating plate (that launches the dice).

    4. Generally speaking, the faster you shoot (more time remaining on counter) the less energy the dice has when it lands; for example, if you wait a long time or let machine shoot, the dice are tumbling and picking up huge amounts of kinectic energy that will result in random rolls. You want the opposite, you want low energy rolls where the dice lands and sticks to the felt.

    Basically, you are looking for conditions that negate the assumptions of random rolls. I've mentioned these factors in my previous posts.

    Here's an analogy, suppose you have two dice in a cup and the dice are moving, rotating, etc and you let the dice out of the cup with huge shove (kinectic energy). Now suppose, you just "swish" the dice around in the cup and slide the dice out. The latter would give you more opportunities for non-random rolls.

    I have been stating this issue all the time that in live craps, the shooter can set the dice while in bubble craps, we have work with what is given.

    As a test, all you have to do is count the number of rotations of new dice vs old dice to see old dice will give players more chances at non-random rolls.

    Aruze has a program that is supposed to randomly shake or rotate the dice (before the launch), randomly "pop" the dice (aka the launch) with different force, etc to effect random rolls. However, the Achilles heel is dice condition & worn felt that help reduce or negate Aruze's randomizing features.

    In statistics, all you need is to influence (or track) of the dice to effect non-random rolls. It's not like you have to keep track of both dice all the time. I use dice mappings to aid when to launch the dice adjusted by dice speed, amount of kinectic energy, time left on counter, etc.

    In summary, you are looking for the best conditions for non-random rolls AND hope the Aruze randomize feature isn't that active. The rest is up to the shooter's skill level and a few secret sauce that I can't share.

    Think about why rolls are random in craps: new dice, long table, pointed shaped foam, etc and then ask yourself what creates randomness in bubble craps. It's the same exercise.
     
    #65

  6. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    You are obviously a fraud and don't get basic math.

    I never saw you produce the Chi-Square Statistic for those 17 dice rolls nor explain how you arrive at said statistic.

    Separately, you never disclosed how you got the necessary degrees of freedom.

    And lastly, where is this P-value that we are waiting to see.

    Since you didn't produce these basic inferential statistics, you must be a fraud.

    Btw, your reverse engineering argument is so dumb -- you can't reverse engineer a BEFORE and AFTER photos. If you had high enough IQ, you would come to the common sense answer is that no one knew what came next in the BEFORE photo (not even I).
     
    #66
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  7. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    I reread this and THIS is the question -- why are morons like TD (the resident village idiot) and others using one standard of Dice Control and applying it to Bubble Craps?? It makes no sense. And these really dumb people claiming I have to state what I am about to do & then do it ... talk about a trailer park argument.

    Here is a comparison of live craps & bubble craps:

    Who controls the dice?
    Live Craps: The Shooter
    Bubble Craps: The machine

    Who "sets" the dice?
    LC: The Shooter
    BC: The Machine

    Who controls the dice rotation?
    LC: The Shooter
    BC: The Machine

    Who controls the kinectic energy in the dice?
    LC: The Shooter
    BC: The Machine

    It's pretty obvious to the rest of us with high enough IQ that in Bubble Craps, the player NEVER touches the dice but is somehow held to the same standard as a shooter in a live game??? Just plain insanity.

    Here's reality: I never touch the dice in bubble craps; I have to press the button when I see a dice pattern (I call this dice mapping not visual ballistics) based on dice rotation, dice speed, kinectic energy, condition of dice, and HOPE the dice lands flat with the desired outcome without tumbling. On the come out roll, the goal is a blue 7 or a point or anything but box cars; once a point is made, the goal is (generally) any number OTHER than the point of red 7 -- since players are pressing their bets, it's important to get long rolls due to geometric nature of the bets.

    What I am saying is I am fighting time as each second increases, the kinectic energy of dice increases and results in more random rolls. I have hit the button before it's too late and MANY TIMES the machine DOES NOT give me a pattern that I am looking for.

    In summary, in live Craps, the SHOOTER has the ability to have 100% dice control; in bubble Craps, the player has 0% dice control using the same standard. Therefore, the same standard does apply to Bubble craps.
     
    #67
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  8. Onautopilot, Apr 14, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    I see that you and eagleeye2 are joined at the hip!

    I my not be the most gifted mathematician around, but as for fraud, you are right...there is a fraud posting in this thread....can you say TR31!
     
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  9. von duck, Apr 14, 2017

    von duck

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    The floor continues to vibrate after the button is pushed. I believe the dice are "influenced", but NOT by the shooter.
     
    #69
  10. von duck, Apr 14, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    All he has to do is get down $15,000,000, in bets every week.
     
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  11. von duck, Apr 14, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    And be down 1.4% on all line action, long run. That's $240 for this example, about $3.35. How much did it score in comps? What are comps worth on $360?
     
    #71
  12. KokomoJoe4, Apr 14, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

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    Concerning the conversion of kinetic energy (energy of motion) into potential energy (energy of position), how exactly does the shooter make this conversion to ensure that the energy of position is the precise position he desires relating to his wagers?

    1/2v^2 = gh

    Keep in mind that this relationship, while independent of mass, does not consider either the rotational aspect of kinetics, nor the effect of friction or obstacles encountered.

    Good luck to the so-called controllers in determining the effects of these variables, the control of which is probably explained by more complex aspects of math and physics than I understand.
     
    #72
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  13. von duck, Apr 14, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    All of these factors, are what cause the "extra" throws, necessary for the shooter to achieve the desired result. Ie. 6 throws to achieve a 7, instead of 1.
     
    #73
  14. TDVegas, Apr 14, 2017

    TDVegas

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    Nonsense application for "influence". Worn felt will actually make smoother conditions...and allow for more dice action---negating influence or "stick". Take new felt and worn felt and try it yourself. The worn will be more "slippery", smooth. You've never had the dice in your hands to feel the difference between new and old regardless.
    More nonsense. Worn dice "lean"? What does that even mean re influence? Even if they roll less often....you still offer nothing of evidence as to what the final result will be. You claim no setting under your scenario. On live table play, for an army cot slide to work or short roll or tumble less...one would have to set the dice in a certain manner. The dice tumble a split second before you can push the button...negating any "setting" under your claim. Waiting longer to push and hoping for a set to appear would actually be more applicable to control.
    Yeah....so what? Has absolutely nothing to do with actual dice control unless you expand on it. The floor vibrates. Yeah, so what? The sky is blue. The grass is green.
    The dice are jumping from the getgo. The vibrating floor continues the same level of vibration and the dice vibrate in the same manner at second 2 or second 18.
    Again, so what?....
    He's not. The only thing this fraud is doing is reverse engineering his previous results...and then applying some rationalization as to why. There is nothing in his suggestions as to HOW one induces a wanted result....he only explains how the dice tumble. i.e., "The floor vibrates". Wow, really?

    Standing offer. Tell us what you will roll BEFORE (because the casino forces us to make bets BEFORE we roll)....I will drive to Reno and watch and record your play.

    If you tell me what you're going to roll or derandomize...and then do it---I'll gladly report your success to this board.

    All he's doing is giving you the factors that influence dice outcomes. He's not telling you how that influence can be achieved. We ALL influence rolls one way or another. Knowing beforehand, how it will actually translate (so we can bet) is another story.

    Proof is in the pudding as they say. Everyone here knows I'm the ultimate skeptic for dice influence. I'll go watch. As long as he outlines BEFORE the roll what he intends to roll (by telling me)....I will match up his call with results, pen and paper....and show them here for all to see. People can then make their judgements as for influence or otherwise.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
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  15. TDVegas, Apr 14, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    In Vegas...with Max 10x points multiplier awarded----about .30 cents. a Standard, typical 1X multiplier...pennies.

    If it was standard slots at 10x points. $360 wagered = $3.60 in free slot play.

    Bubble craps is not standard slots which is why points are awarded differently.
     
    #75
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  16. yacraps, Apr 14, 2017

    yacraps

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    Vibrations could be a good thing
     
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  17. HornHiYo, Apr 14, 2017

    HornHiYo

    HornHiYo Member

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    Reverse Engineering and selective memory influence opinions not dice.
     
    #77
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
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  18. TDVegas, Apr 14, 2017

    TDVegas

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    He claimed on his hardway sequence that it "had to be influence" because he didn't know what was coming next and took a picture before....

    all he did was have a good sequence of hardways (he claimed 6 in a row--it was actually 2 hardways, boxcars, 3 hard 10's)---so, he was happy and took a picture of it.

    Over the next 9 rolls or so...3 additional hardways showed up (and a 12). So, he took another picture----then combined the two as if to say "How would I know I was going to roll 3 additional hardways"??

    You didn't....and your first picture qualifies nothing for the second picture you took. Both were after the fact---reverse engineering at its best.

    "Had to be influence"......LOL.
     
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  19. eagleeye2, Apr 14, 2017

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    KoKo,

    No need for the ""complex aspects of math and physics"" that you call out for DI, as that is where Practice & Analysis comes into play!

    One simply selects the following:

    1) Table, Professional or Practice
    2) Dice
    3) Dice Set & Hold
    4) Dice Toss, etc.
    5) Run throw until you get a (7), after the come-out-roll, recording all roll numbers on both Dice.
    ............................
    6) Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, entering data obtained into a spread sheet, or program that gives you a visual display of your results
    7) Adjust items (1) to (5) above, as often as required, to achieve desired results
    8) As you improve, integrate a "Betting Strategy" to verify that you can theoretically make a PROFIT from your throws
    7) Your practice & Analysis, as outlined above must continue until you have developed DI; to your personal satisfaction.
    ...........................
    8) Head to a Casino of your choice & enjoy Playing the Game of CRAPS!
    ..........................
    9) No one said that DI was easy & it appears that most here argue against it, but lacking the Power of ""Mind over Matter"", the above presents your best chance to Profit from the Game of CRAPS!

    eagleeye2
     
    #79
  20. TDVegas, Apr 14, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    I'm actually surprised (well, maybe not) that these short bussers don't get this concept on dice influence...

    Don't tell me what you have done (past)
    Don't tell me what you have rolled (past)
    Don't provide me your roll data (past)
    Don't show me a picture of what you have done (past)

    Tell me what you will DO...then go DO it...under witness.

    Influence in it's most simplistic form.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
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