# Is this an example of Dice Control???

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by TR31, Apr 9, 2017.

1. ### TR31 Member

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First, I will break a general rule and post photos on the web (I took photos with my tablet as original photos were on my smartphone).

Second, I can't control dice at bubble craps all the time, but I can control it enough times where people tip me. I have bettors waging thousands of \$\$\$ when I am the shooter.

Third, I will attach 2 photos so you can judge whether or not I have some form of dice control.

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2. ### TR31 Member

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In the first photo (above), I made the point (which was 5) due to a blue 5. I then hit a 7 on the come-out roll because it was a blue 7. The point is 5 again. You read the rolls from right to left; the most recent roll is the left-most result.

Next photo is the rest of the series (note at time of first photo, I have no idea what the next rolls will be, which is why I took the first photo).

The key points, I made the point 5 back to back (aka twice in a row) due to the second blue 5 and I also made another 7 on come out roll (it's another blue 7). There was no red 7 (aka 7 out) in 17 rolls. People were making money hand over fists. The regulars know when I am in my zone, I roll a disproportionate number of 7's on the come-out roll.

Here is a simple statistical test using binomial probabilities: the odds of hitting a number the hard way is 1 in 6 (6 hard ways out of 36 combo's); I hit 10 hard ways in 15 rolls (not to mention six consecutive hard ways and all tens were hard ways) -- due to sheer randomness, this would occur once in 50K+ rolls.

I stopped because I was tired from all the mental calculations of dice velocity, eye-hand coordination. I can only show you the evidence and let you be the judge.

I wish I can control the dice more often, but I tell the regulars that so much of the dice results are out of my control. Btw, you knew it was me because my bet unit was \$6 and I had \$8 as hedge odds on the pass line since the point was 9 (\$6 & \$8 = \$14 bet).

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3. TDVegas, Apr 9, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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Nah...unless you call this dice influence...
That's 4 hard 10's in a row sandwiched between a hard 8 and hard 4.

That's SIX hardways in a row. I don't see that on your sequence.

I've rolled 4 - 12's in row. That's four!
4 - hard 8's in a row.

And on and on.

I would have to dig them out. I can post bubble results that would make your head spin. The game allows for screwy sequences. It DOES happen...more than you might think. While all dice games could allow for influence...what you provided is no evidence for dice influence. It's a sequence that just happened to happen...like mine.

I'll be in Reno tomorrow to catch your 70% - 7's if you give the OK. Now, if you can do that as I watch and wager...I'll definitely re think my opinion.

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4. TDVegas, Apr 9, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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You want come out 7's....?

Keep bubbling.

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5. Mr.Dice, Apr 9, 2017

### Mr.Dice Member

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TR31..! You got tipped on a bubble machine?? Oh my gosh, that is something.. You have yourself a real piece of pie right there. I have both received and given tips on a live craps table, but never a bubble table. Wow that's both funny and great. You may have a gift for the bubble craps. I just got back from Vegas a week ago and was playing the Don't side of a bubble table at Flamingo for about an hour and a half. Started with table minimum (\$3). Got up to over \$115 playing the Dont's. I should have quit while I was ahead but I was having so much fun. I was on the Don't's, and placing #s at the same time. Then pull the place bets down and lay a 4 or 10. Then the seven would come. It was great.. The table Hot Shot there who was playing the Pass Line would jump up and do Duck Duck Goose all around the table when a Point was made. It was crazy fun. Everybody was having too much too drink and it seemed to last forever.. That was March 30th. The day those 80mph wind gusts hit Vegas. Took down some power lines and overturned a few cars.. Man that was some strong wind.

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6. ### TR31 Member

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Because you need glasses or perhaps you are just too stupid to see 6 consecutive hard ways in both photos. You must be really stupid to miss it BOTH times.

You have red 7's while I have blue 7's. Maybe this is another concept that is too hard for you to discern.

TD, you are clearly a waste of my bandwidth.

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7. TDVegas, Apr 9, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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Ah, name calling. Wonderful path you've taken there.

I simply noted to you that your sequence can and will happen. I've posted many sequences similar to yours. Pictures galore.

Those are blue 7's I posted in the second photo. Are you color blind?

Six in a row Hardways....no interruptions. Don't be so sensitive.

Either yours or mine...claiming influence is a stretch. These things do happen...unless....unless there are 2 bubble influencers and we just discovered this. I'm sure Liman has some wacky sequences and anyone who has played the game. Don't dismiss screwed up sequences as non-random occurrences. I've just showed you I can do similar stuff.

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8. Onautopilot, Apr 9, 2017

### Onautopilot Member

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Any 15 roll sequence of a specific order is statistically off the charts...after the fact! Try calling your shots before the fact, that is how you can claim dice control.....prove your predictions!

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9. ### TR31 Member

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TD, you make stupid comments AND it was really stupid for you not see the six consecutive hard ways in both my photos so stop being an a-ho and just admit you made a mistake. But you clearly are the type who won't admit he's wrong.

You can post any photo or photos you want, but people with high enough IQ know the statistical concept called "cherry picking." I set the photos to prevent the cherry picking argument. All you do is use a trasher-park argument because you lack the proper statistics training that people get in college and graduate school. Please use a binomial probabilities argument or use a Chi-square Test or P-Value so the rest of us with stats background can get what you are trying to assert.

In your photo with the consecutive hard way numbers, those were RED 7's. In my photos, my series had blue 7's and that means I maintain control of the dice. Again, this might be too difficult for you to understand -- there is no way to prove you rolled those consecutive hard way numbers; in contrast, it's much easier to prove that I was the shooter in my series.

Telling us before hand that you will roll 6 consecutive hard way numbers and then supply the photos is a much more effective way than cherry picking a photo with consecutive hard ways. I said after the first photo I had no way of knowing how well I will shoot but I still managed another 4 hard way numbers. That is why along with the blue 7 is why I have credibility.

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10. ### TR31 Member

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That is why I broke up the photos into 2 separate photos. That way, people can't use the cherry picking or after the fact argument.

In the first photo was 6 hard-ways numbers. We both have no way of predicting the rest of the series but the second photo clearly showed 4 more hard way numbers.

You had no way of knowing 4 more hard ways were coming solely based on the first photo.

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11. TDVegas, Apr 9, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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You think that rolling three additional hardways in six rolls after you had your initial hardway sequence is an indication you are a dice influencer? There is no mistake. I rolled 6 consecutive hardways---nothing to break it up. Your sequence was broken up by a 12 and the other hardways were in the midst of other rolls.

You cherry picked a sequence of rolls. Nothing more. So did I.

LOL...

Like OAP said...call it before it happens and you'll get an audience.

Proof of dice influence would require many, many more rolls under a CONTROLLED environment (independent witness, eg). If a shorter amount of rolls is sought...you might get some attention if you announce PRIOR to rolling what will happen. You didn't do that. You simply posted a second photo that was a continuation of the first....and 3 more hardways showed up. BFD.

Any short roll sequence will break from expected. If you can call the number prior....let us know. We will watch.

You posted an after the fact 15 roll sequence and asked is this an example of dice influence.

The short answer. No. By your logic a 2 roll sequence "could" be an example of dice influence. Depends how the person rolling views it.

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12. betwthelines, Apr 10, 2017

### betwthelines Member

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why is this so bleeping difficult to understand?

these pictures and all craps statistics prove nothing...they MEAN nothing with respect to influence vs variance...on my recent trip i myself rolled seven 7s inna row (only the first one was red, the rest blue [obviously])...further, and equally astonishing the screen then, which as all bubblers know show the last 15 rolls, revealed TWELVE 7s...

one time while in oz i saw 18 straight reds on a roulette wheel...was black (or green) "due" on the 19th spin? or would it be red again because it was "hot"? was black due after the 9th spin? the 12th?

Shit like this happens and it happens all the time.

<< an aside: i play a little game with myself on the bubble in trying to start the roll before the bitch has time to even start to say "PUSH THE BUTTON!" (it is quite challenging actually) so there is absolutely no attempt at influence...like my table rolls, also just grab 'em and fling 'em, they are utterly random [one bubbler actually took me to task for using this procedure as my shitty rolls persisted ...lol] >>

but the bleeping, bastard, greedy, asshole casinos always make you bet before the roll...the sunzabitches!!

as tdv has constantly pointed out --as well as being seemingly eager to witness-- say what you can do and are going to do and then DO.

"do" is present tense...the past is of no moment regarding influence vs variance...resolution of those bets is history, past, not present.

success at this doing should get the attention of anyone right-thinking and thinking critically...tdv has averred that it would get his attention and indicate a degree of validity...eyebrows raised in wonderment, he would be duly impressed.

all on this board have been challenged countless times under witness to go do

---------------------------------

now having said all that most objections to going and
doing ARE QUITE VALID but easily overcome (old fart salespeoples talk)..."i can't make it happen ALL of the time" is undoubtedly true but then that begs the question and really just does get back to:

Shit like this happens and it happens all the time.

thus those objecting may want several attempts at it or until they are "in the zone"...personally i would have no problem with that (indeed one salient feature of the bohunk challenge [the example i will now refer to mostly] is that the shooter is in complete control as to which rolls "count" [stated before the roll obviously]) but of course a big issue of this bubble challenge thing is logistical: is the witness available at those auspicious and fortuitous times the bubbler is "in the zone"?

this issue might ultimately make the whole thing impractical (sorry, tdv) should the player weigh the "zone" thing as a sine qua non and stick to his objection...OTOH the witness might have plenty of time to wait around for the player to get his mind right...again he would be in complete control of what counts...state what you will
do and then do...whenever you like.

another valid objection made especially regarding the bc and especially by those DIers with delicate and tender sensibilities is that such a challenge
will "prove nothing" ----and make no mistake wanting others to believe in their remarkable expertise and skill is quite important to these, never mind their dozens of posts constantly denying such----methinks they doth protest too much, eh?

that the bc will prove or mean nothing of course is 110% true
whatever the results of the bet...but curiously this fact has been stated up front from the get-go yet why it keeps getting thrown back is puzzling...the bc is simply a bet, nothing more...one will either win or lose it...indeed IF one has the skills claimed, it is bets where one has a big advantage...it is out to prove or mean not a goddamn thing...you no like bettting? you no like gambling? you no like an advantage? you no like money?

<< here: let's flip coins...if i win, you give me 91 cents...if you win, i give you a dollar...wanna bet? >>

the very best and valid objection and one which cannot be overcome was:

"i don't wanna"
...an added benefit in getting to this utterly valid objection was the great many hilarious, transparently ludicrous, absurd, albeit quite creative, grasping at straws objections by the poster before finally getting to this most valid one...it was quite a hoot.

---------------------------------​

here now is a delicious delectation for you:
this rant is over​

tom p
-g. geist: what relevance did your stupid push the buttom story have to this post?
--tom p: that no attempt was made that these remarkable rolls be anything but random
---g. geist:
----tom p:
-----g. geist: o
-------tom p:
--------g. geist: right

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13. TDVegas, Apr 10, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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This⬆️

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14. eagleeye2, Apr 10, 2017

### eagleeye2 Member

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Onautopilot,

More PROOF that you don't know S H I T about DI!

No one has claimed that DI involves your B.S. like ""Try calling your shots before the fact, that is how you can claim dice control""

One that can throw 15 & Up rolls before that inevitable (7) out, on a frequent basis, has developed DI, period!

eagleeye2

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15. TDVegas, Apr 10, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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"Frequent basis"...

Gotta love the generic terms when trying to define DI validity....LOL.

"frequent basis" has never been defined....and if you track all their rolls and there are no exclusions, no rolls that don't count...

The SRR will eventually make its way to ~6.

Random roller.

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16. eagleeye2, Apr 10, 2017

### eagleeye2 Member

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TDV,

You have only "Burst your OWN Bubble"!

By Frequent Basis, I define sufficient As: OFTEN ENOUGH that one can PROFIT SIGNIFICANTLY from those throws!

With a PRESS of some sort, one can thus WIN more Often than they LOSE @ CRAPS, something totally impossible with the SRR of ""Approximately 6"" you elude to.

eagleeye2

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17. TDVegas, Apr 10, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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Nonsense.

I can win with a 6 SRR or less. it depends on if my numbers are being hit while I am there. If I make a pass line bet. 6 point. Place the 8. I now have the 6 and 8 covered.

Roll 8-5-8-7

My SRR is less than 6 and I'm net positive.

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18. eagleeye2, Apr 10, 2017

### eagleeye2 Member

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TDV

Violating Statistics will get you nowhere!

eagleeye2

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19. TDVegas, Apr 10, 2017

### TDVegas Member

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You do that everyday here.

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20. Harley, Apr 10, 2017

### Harley Member

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Why would anyone waste more than 10 minutes in the hellhole known as Reno when Lake Tahoe is just over the mountain ?!!!!

TR31 - 1st of all, I doubt bettors are wagering "thousands of \$\$\$" on your rolls - most of these Philippine made computer crap machines limit your bets:

- Treasure Island (LV) has a Maximum bet of \$100. at once ... If you Buy the 4 and 10 for \$50. each, you cannot make another bet on that roll .... you maxed out so if every player at Treasure Island made max bets on your roll, everyone combined would not even reach \$1,000.

- Palms max bet per place number is \$14.

- The maximum amount you can insert into the Hooter's machine is \$500., so your maximum 1st bet is \$500.

These are all Las Vegas Strip or near Strip casinos -- can you image limits on casinos in BFE ?

Very few \$1000 dollar machines out there, Ellis Island, Bellagio, Red Rock to name a few but then again they have a lot of \$5 bettors.

2nd - you are playing a computer slot machine that calculates a guaranteed payoff to the casino north of 90% - if everyone is betting inside or Laying the 10, off course 10s will roll.

..... carry on

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