Is Craps beatable

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by zbest1966, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. JL Vegas, Feb 23, 2019

    JL Vegas

    JL Vegas Member

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    Here in Vegas and other like cities which offer 24 hrs, gambling, and multiple casinos, this is easily doable.

    One can win, but those who do win more times than not, do so by having a structured plan, and they stick to it. They know how to read the table conditions and adjust their toss/dice accordingly, and most importantly, they play the short game staying no more than 45 minutes unless you are on a monster roll, but even then once you seven out, you walk. Also, no need to play where the crew are assholes. Win or lose a little and move on.
     
    #121
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  2. Mssthis1, Feb 23, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    That part I disagree with. If you're truly beating the game table time is your friend and you want as much of it as possible.

    Limiting table time is just a variation of the 5 count to reduce the rate you're losing at.
     
    #122
  3. von duck, Feb 23, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Easily doable? :confused: No, I don't think so. Might be possible. Leave before you lose? That will work, if you can find a way to do it. Don't play where the crew are assholes? Now your just taking all the "fun" out of it. :)
     
    #123
  4. James Hall, Feb 23, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    The heart of your strategy , if people would hold to this factor
    they could , WALK , with more money more often.
     
    #124
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  5. JL Vegas, Feb 23, 2019

    JL Vegas

    JL Vegas Member

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    Those who have little or no structure in their life might find it hard to do.
    It is very doable, but to suggest it isn’t you would first have to try it. If you never tried it, you’ll never know or grasp the ease and simplicity of this concept. This concept may make the dealer work a bit harder, but then that is their part of their job by providing the player with good, accurate service.

    The only hard part is walking away a winner within a short amount of time.There are a lot of players who find craps as a form of entertainment so they will cling onto the rails for hours even if they are losing. Now why is that entertaining? Not just the losing money part, but why are they staying for hours? But that is their style of play, not mine.

    Other than contract bets, players have choices as to what they can do with their bets (money). Not bet, same bet, press, regress, turn-off, take me down, most will never do the last three; they aren’t aware they can, unspoken intimidation by the pit critters, they think other players, who they don’t know, will think little of them. Good luck with your game.
     
    #125
  6. James Hall, Feb 23, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Obviously I have never pushed a place bet that far.
    There have been times I wish I had.
    with $25 on the 4 or 10 in that same 4 hits you could rack $2175
    let it ride next hit would be $4350 total $6525
    rack $1525 leave $5000 on the number
    hit for $10,000 total $15,000.
    It takes a great amount of courage to do that.
    You are correct there it doesn't ALWAYS work of course
    It will NEVER WORK if a person doesn't go for it.

    and a person SHOULD NEVER GO FOR IT
    if his game doesn't provide the numbers to make it work.
    A person must be , POSITIVE but REALISTIC.

    "BET WHAT THE DICE ARE GIVING YOU"
     
    #126
  7. JL Vegas, Feb 23, 2019

    JL Vegas

    JL Vegas Member

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    Exactly. Not a very hard concept to follow, but a good number of players would object and find fault.

    $64 to $160 across with a Field bet from $5 to $15, for two, but no more than three tosses, and I then tell the dealer to take me down. Do I see a PSO or a PPSO? Absolutely, but I win more times than not, and this is when I’m betting on another player.
     
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  8. von duck, Feb 23, 2019

    von duck

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    $160 across, with a $15 field bet? :confused: :cool: What can go wrong? :)
     
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  9. Dave G Ct, Feb 23, 2019

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    See TD taking a more positive approach. Makes sense.
     
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  10. Mssthis1, Feb 23, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    But you can win more often than not. 1 PSO wipes out up to five wins potentially. 5+1=6, random dice, imagine that. lol.
     
    #130
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  11. tabletop123, Feb 23, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    I agree with you Mssthis.

    The reason that Dice Influencers play short sessions, & run is because they KNOW that they are basically random.

    Factor in the house edge constantly gnawing away at your bankroll, coupled with MAYBE a razor thin advantage = flee AS SOON as possible.

    Also, let's not exclude " Toss Decay". The longer that you toss the dice, the more prone that those little " kinks" are gonna creep into your mechanics, & your " release" is gonna suffer.

    It is VERY rare to be able to consistently toss the dice with precision for long periods of time.

    My guestimation is roughly 36- 50 rolls, & ......YOUR DONE!!!! (Especially if it's Solo Tossing)

    If course the " Gurus" will tell you otherwise, but it is what it is.

    JAMES pre-post reply: HOG SHIT!!! How do you know how long a skilled shooter can toss effectively?

    Who said that Influence is only razor thin, & basically random?
    With Proper training,,& a little athleticism, a skilled tosser can toss EFFECTIVELY for hours upon hours.

    I wish you guys could have witnessed my mentor ( The Kidney) toss the dice. Man........what a sight to behold.

    Did I tell you guys about the time that the Kidney tossed the dice for over.......Well......Never-mind. If I told you guys the WHIKE story, you would simply start with the Old Delusions of grandeur thingy.

    HMAOQ ( Heed my advice or quit)
     
    #131
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  12. tabletop123, Feb 23, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Let's see.....Bet what the dice are giving you. Translation= My Dice Set WILL produce 4's, & 9's but all I am getting is 5''s, & 6's, so.......I Move my bets to the 5's, & 6's.

    SEE THERE.....I'm influencing the dice. Lol. ( Variance at work)

    Biggest crock of shit imaginable. Lol

    A skilled Shooter tosses with intent & must realize that when SAID intent is NOT accomplished, & fortune is accomplished through " Other" means ( numbers being tossed that you had no earthly idea WOULD be tossed) ......it is simply Variance at work & nothing else.

    Dice Influencers are NOTORIOUS for NOT completing a task, but QUICK to take credit for ANY pattern that unfolds simply because of Variance.

    My all time favorite is....I just toss to avoid the Seven Out, & to toss as many Box numbers as possible. NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! Who doesn't? ( As a Right-side shooter?)

    A truly skilled shooter tells you BEFOREHAND which number/s their dice set is gonna produce, & performs the task.....ACCEPTING, but NOT crediting themselves with the CLUMPING of numbers that Variance will certainly ( at one time or another) produce.

    Show me a Dice Influencer that is honest about " INTENT", & I'll show you a shooter that deals in Reality.
     
    #132
  13. James Hall, Feb 23, 2019

    James Hall

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    Well of course you do.
    A contradiction in terms.
    First you say you agree that long sessions on the
    table is the key , then you seem to be saying they need to
    keep their sessions short.

    Was this a flip flop or was the post just worded rather , "WONKYLY"

    Don't ever think that time is on the side of the player.

    Have a good throw , walk when it's over but
    NEVER QUIT A GOOD HAND and remember
    "It is easier to get ahead with large wins
    than it is with small losses or small wins"
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WISE WORDS from SYDNEY<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
     
    #133
  14. James Hall, Feb 23, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    LOL You are on fire today. Very silly but you do , try to make a point.

    The SMART PLAYER , the player playing the smart game , the game
    tailored to his toss , isn't moving anything anywhere. He is
    on the numbers he needs to be on.
    Those trained and skilled shooters do create the
    variance they need , that's what allows them to win.
    Numbers being tossed that you had no idea WOULD be tossed????
    A trained and skilled DI knows what numbers are going to show
    he has money on them , he plays across to take advantage of
    any and all box numbers that might and will appear
    You either don't believe that or you are back on the other side
    of the fence again , the , DI doesn't work side.
    I can certainly see why you would be confusing skill for variance.

    So I guess I am going to say you are definitely back in the
    "There is no skill it's all variance camp" .
    It's certainly hard to keep track of you from day to day.
    One day SKILL
    Next day VARIANCE.
    Now this one is a real puzzler , it's one of those statements
    that sounded really good banging and bouncing around in your head
    but seems rather foolish when you read it. Perhaps if you were to
    explain what you were thinking............
     
    #134
  15. TDVegas, Feb 23, 2019

    TDVegas

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    I agree. Never heard of someone who is having money counted to them suddenly stop the person and say “that’s enough”....

    If one is truly beating the game....maximizing table time is the common sense play.

    We’re not talking about some grueling competition that taxes the body and frequent rest is required.
     
    #135
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  16. tabletop123, Feb 23, 2019

    tabletop123

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    Brilliant. YOU, my friend are ALWAYS on fire. A skilled Shooter knows what numbers he/she will toss, so.....bet them All? Lol

    Silliest shit I have EVER heard. Listen.....for what YOU guys call Dice Influencing, ie.....bet what the dice are giving you? You might as well call yourselves " Converted Come bettors" INSTEAD of Dice Influencers.

    Use the 2V to toss 4's, & 10's. First toss...a 6. Bet the six. Next toss....5. Bet the five. Yeah, right.....you bet ALL of the numbers because you know what numbers you are gonna toss? Lol

    Trend bettor...Translation= bet whatever the heck shows up, even though my INTENT is to toss numbers OTHER than what is being tossed, so......I'll take credit for the numbers being tossed, call it Influence, & label myself as a Dice Influencer/Trend bettor. Lol

    COMPLETE FRAUDS....taking credit for Complete Variance, & UNINTENDED, but PROFITABLE CLUMPING of numbers, & calling it Influence.
    SAD!!!

    This is how Guys get : "sucked in" to taking these bullshit classes, & refresher courses.

    Teacher to Student: Well, you didn't toss but three 4's, & 10's out of 36 rolls, & probability states a minimum of 6, but look at all of those 6/8's that you tossed....NOW THAT'S INFLUENCE!! Lol

    Student: So ya think that I'm getting better at this Dice Influencing thingy?

    Teacher: Darn skippy, you are. Just twelve more lessons at $499 per lesson, & you'll be on your way to becoming a GREAT Shooter.

    Mr. Variance: Its simply mind-boggling....the shit that people will believe. Shooters tossing the TOTAL opposite of what's EXPECTED ( their INTENTIONS), but WISELY being SMART enough to capitalize off Variance, & the CLUMPING of numbers, but STILL insisting that it's skill. Lol
     
    #136
  17. tabletop123, Feb 23, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    80 years young, & you don't have the ability to Understand " Cat in the Hat" type Kindergarten material?

    Mind-boggling!!!
     
    #137
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  18. tabletop123, Feb 23, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    The bottom line is this.....If your pre-set numbers are NOT consistently finishing in the Tossing plane when your dice come to rest........ITS RANDOM. Simple as that!!!
    Correlated shooting? Bullsh**t! Another excuse for: " I don't want to be Random.

    All of this mumbo jumbo about setting your dice " like so", & PURPOSELY tossing to knock your dice Off Axis? Bullsh**t!!

    Dice NATURALLY go Off Axis after they make contact with the table, so you're NOT creating/influencing something that occurs NATURALLY.

    If some of you SO-CALLED talented Shooters were to take the " Smart Craps" Pro Test.....you'd realize how lucky that you are on MOST tosses.

    The truth hurts, & Dice Influencer's EGOS are easily crushed with rigorous, & COMPLETE testing of SAID skill.

    Jack Nicholson: " You want the TRUTH? Ya couldn't handle the truth!!!
     
    #138
  19. James Hall, Feb 23, 2019

    James Hall

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    I moved beyond that stuff even before I started to school.
    I was reading before first grad but that stuff didn't interest me then
    I doubt I would find much interest in it now.
    I guess I don't understand YOUR interest in it but as
    TDVgas says , "TO EACH HIS OWN".
    I see no reason to disagree with that , "CONSISTENTLY" being the key.
    Nope not entirely.
    You are talking to the wrong guy with that one , that is not a term I use.
    Who does???
    I don't know about that one , That is not something I have explored
    Why are you bringing this up???
    This might be an opinion based upon speculation ,
    it might be your experience but does not of necessity occur.
    To some small degree a person MIGHT consider that to be true
    however that does not preclude the possibility of intentionally
    CAUSING SOMETHING that might otherwise naturally occur.




    I don't answer to what "SO-CALLED talented Shooters , do or don't do.
    they would naturally not fall within the realm of skill so there is
    no standard by which to gauge results.
    Since there is no such thing as , "LUCK" , there would be
    no way for a , "SMART CRAPS" pro test or any other test
    to determine how much or how little , "LUCK" a person might posses.
    Let me ask you this , when this test measures your , "LUCK"
    does it chart that in pounds , square inches , percentages , or how???
    Interesting.

    When and where does this testing take place
    where these dice influencers egos are easily crushed with
    rigorous and complete testing of said skill??? I would like to watch that
     
    #139
  20. James Hall, Feb 23, 2019

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    How do you come up with this stuff??
    That much is very true , however the reality is too often
    too many players stay too long and lose back too much of what they won.
    Time is not the friend of the player it is a tool used by the casino
    to beat your brains out.
    Never quit a winning hand but
    when the winning hand is over you need to begin thinking about , WALKING.
     
    #140