INTELLIGENT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by eagleeye2, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. DeMango, Jan 3, 2017

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    I use the come as a hedge against unknown shooters. Wait for established point. Min come bet. Minimum come bet. Double minimum come bet. Now after 4 rolls (no craps, 11) there is no money lost. After that, odds if feeling it. No PSO will hurt me, in fact makes me money.
     
    #161
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  2. Onautopilot, Jan 3, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    Because if you did, then you would have to join them in the innumerate club. :)
     
    #162
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  3. eagleeye2, Jan 3, 2017

    eagleeye2

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    Onautopilot, Is Dumb as a ROCK, blind as a BAT!

    One that Posts ""The come bet is a 2 to 1 favorite on the, come out roll, when a (7) is rolled; which happens but 16.7% of the time, is the innumerate!

    They conviently IGNORE the 11.1% of those BETS that LOOSE, on the Come Out Roll & the other 72.2% of Pass Line Bets, that remain in Play, with up to a 50% DISADVANTAGE!

    But then, Onautopilot spent much of his Life working for the Casino's!
     
    #163
  4. Edward-ky, Jan 3, 2017

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    All on board! Last call for boarding.
     
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  5. Onautopilot, Jan 3, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    A "cut and paste" of a partial statement I made......include the whole statement! Also correct your percentages!

    As for innumerate, I am not the smartest person in the world....but you can rest assured, that I am the smartest one in this individual discussion!
     
    #165
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  6. DeMango, Jan 3, 2017

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Fixed it!
     
    #166
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  7. eagleeye2, Jan 3, 2017

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    DeMango,

    Post # 153 ~~ Onautopilot, Is Dumb as a ROCK, blind as a BAT!

    eagleeye2
     
    #167
  8. Onautopilot, Jan 3, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    Which persona came to that conclusion, Harley or eagleeye?
     
    #168
  9. Twelve4s, Jan 3, 2017

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    It's a coin toss.
     
    #169
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  10. James Hall, Jan 3, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Edward KY well we are back in Mesa
    two of the Mesa guys showed up
    so we had Parker , Leon Dave , Dennis and me on the table
    oh I forgot , also two suits behind the box man pacing back and forth cussing under there breath
    fun was had by all and everybody on the table made money except one guy who bought in for 3 or 4 thousand
    he kept pressing and would never take any thing down
    he would bet a couple hundred on the pass line and max odds
    This morning he was playing table minimum , he was standing next to Leon started betting like Leon and won some back
    As we left the cashiers cage the guy said to Leon "DAMN YOU GUYS ARE LUCKY" , Parker had just taken a drink of his coffee
    spewed all over laughing
    That guy seemed to think winning sessions are strictly accidental , I felt sorry for him
    But then a person sees that all the time
    They just don't know any better
     
    #170
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  11. Twelve4s, Jan 3, 2017

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    James,

    This isn't a cashier's cage,

    IMG_5770.JPG
     
    #171
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  12. James Hall, Jan 3, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    I hope you are not going there to cash in , chips
    the line there is longer than lines I have seen in some of the casinos
    the line in the photo appears to have 2 people
     
    #172
  13. James Hall, Jan 3, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    one big disadvantage is the fact that to collect on a number with the come bet , a given number must hit twice
     
    #173
  14. eagleeye2, Jan 3, 2017

    eagleeye2

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    Twelve4s,

    You are like a LEMING, DUH!
     
    #174
  15. HornHiYo, Jan 3, 2017

    HornHiYo

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    One big disadvantage is the fact that to collect on any box number the first time it hits, one must bet across and be working on the come out roll.
     
    #175
  16. James Hall, Jan 3, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    if you place across after the point is established , every bet you cash will be the first time it hits
    at the same time they pay you and you parlay or press the come bet travels
    the second hit of that number you collect a parlayed bet and the come pays the first win
    you can pull the place if you desire or parlay again , the come bet is contract and must remain

    The house is willing to pay you true odds on your come bet odds bet to get you to play the pass line and the come
    they won't offer that bribe on a place bet

    the question most players never ask themselves is "why is the come bet spelled out in "RED" letters on the largest marked block on the table ,
    directly in front of you , then offer true odds when you place your odds bet
    they will never use that bribe on a place bet , they would much rather have you on the come
    you have to hit a number twice to collect once
    now that's math that everyone should enjoy
    Which bet is better
    bet 1) you collect every time your number hits
    bet 2) you collect every other time your number hits
    come betters for some reason prefer to collect half as many times as place betters
    they say the math is better if you collect 5 times instead of 10 times while parlaying

    Personally I will stick to the 10 payouts , they can keep the math and their 5 pay outs
    and the rest of you can decide what you want to do
    I would say good luck but we all know that is meaningless
    Play well and improve your skill
    you will enjoy the game more
    Oh yeah by the way VARIANCE sucks too
     
    #176
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  17. HornHiYo, Jan 3, 2017

    HornHiYo

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    But if you don't place 'em and work 'em before the come out roll, then when you do place 'em the one number that became point will have to hit twice before you collect. That's the same disadvantage you give the come bet; the number has to hit twice for you to collect.
     
    #177
  18. KokomoJoe4, Jan 3, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

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    It is certainly a fact that if you have placed across immediately after come out and a box number is rolled, you will be paid at house-defined odds on your winning number. It is also true that you will continue to be paid for each and every box number that shows, as long as the bets remain up.

    It is again true that you can parlay a winning bet, and that you will win more if it hits again.

    However, you have conveniently forgotten to describe what happens when: (1) the seven shows on your first active roll (2) the seven shows on your second active roll, (3) the seven shows on your third active roll, (4) trash numbers roll, (5) you have put out say $64 across-How many hits are needed BEFORE the money you have put out is safely back in your rail with all bets still up?

    The number you do not want to see is the most likely result each and every roll. Between it and the numbers which do not get you paid, one-third of all possible outcomes either get you nothing or lose you everything,

    You also seem to forget that the REASON the pass and come have lower house edge than any and every place bet is BECAUSE they are two part bets. They WIN immediately 22% of the time, and they lose immediately 11% of the time. The other 67% of the time, they are the exact same underdog to the seven that your place bets are.

    No one has a gun held to their head playing craps. Everyone plays as they please, and most play in the manner they have done best with over time. Nothing wrong with that, and the play is obviously very different from one person to another.

    Nothing works all the time, and nothing fails all the time, but this is a negative expectation game. For that reason only, I prefer to minimize number of bets, and unless you choose not to play, nothing is more minimum than one.
     
    #178
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  19. James Hall, Jan 3, 2017

    James Hall

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    All of that has some followers no doubt however I have been having tjis discussion for years and the proponents
    of the come bet always have the same argument . "IF THE 7 SHOWS ON THE FIRST ROLL THE SECOND ROLL THE THIRD ROLL
    all that will happen before I place my first place bet
    If I am playing the pass line which I will because I am required to in order to throw the dice
    after the point is established I place the numbers I will play

    the reality is the come bet is a brace for the 7 when the 7 does appear the come better loses all the bets that have traveled
    but he collects one come bet $10 if that is the table minimum
    collecting every time a number is hit as opposed to every other time will net more profit in the long run

    I bet only when I throw the dice I bet what the table is giving me
    because I have been doing this for years I tend to roll certain numbers in a particular set more than others so I usually have some idea as to what will be more prone to happen
    If my results vary I usually know how to alter my betting pattern
    like you say nothing works all the time and nothing fails all the time
    my set , throw and outcomes are somewhat more consistent than others might be because I have a Vegas casino in my living room and I practice a little most days

    I would say that limiting bets will not allow you to win more it will only allow you to lose less
    I don't know what you are experiencing but I personally would rather bet what is showing
    and that last statement is one that many on this forum have trouble with because they don't fully understand , it is in most cases a very difficult game when one is not trained
    and the negative expectation compounds as a result
     
    #179
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  20. lone irish digit, Jan 3, 2017

    lone irish digit

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    As I have mentioned before, one of the greatest craps player, the Rappin Captain, played max odds and tried to get 5 come bets in play at all times with max odds. He typically avoided place bets because of the HE. His strategy worked great when he got hot and tossed a ship load of repeaters.
     
    #180
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