INTELLIGENT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by eagleeye2, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. eagleeye2, Dec 29, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    314
    Gender:
    Male
    All of the BICKERING about ~ PRACTICE ~ can be resolved with the following:

    1) Keep your GOAL in Sight...

    2) That GOAL in CRAPS, is to BEAT the Casino, using the Casino's rules.

    3) To do this requires a technique, in throwing the DICE & or a Betting technique; that one can prove works, to accomplish that GOAL!

    4) With either or both of the above, the following are required:

    ...A) PRACTICE, Yes Practice ~ This practice can be in a Casino, or on ones Practice Table.

    ...B) Of course, the ultimate GOAL of BEATING the Casino, must be Verified on the Casino Floor!

    ...C) However, prior to investing $$$ on the Casino Floor, one should develop a throwing technique, (that is unless you wish to rely on others throws (not recommended) & your betting technique.

    ...D) Practice your throw, charting those throws against the Theoretical Statistical Distribution of Two Fair Dice. This can be accomplished with one of the available (for a fee) charting programs, or one can set it up in a spreadsheet, like Excel; but nothing beats your ability to VISUALIZE your expertise @ CRAPS, Vs the Theoretical Statistical Distribution of your DICE Throws.

    ...E) If you CAN consistently BEAT the Theoretical Statistical Distribution, with your throw & betting strategy, you should move onto the Casino Floor to verify your abilities under Casino conditions.

    ...F) Assuming you cannot BEAT the Theoretical Statistical Distribution, you need more PRACTICE! You may need to modify your Dice Set, Throwing Technique, & or Betting Strategy. You need to do so, then re-evaluate, practicing until you can reach your GOAL, then & only then can you return to the Casino & anticipate to WIN there!

    ...G) Recall that no one here, said it was EASY, with some here saying it is impossible!

    Good Luck at your efforts.

    eagleeye2
     
    #1
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
    hartzehn22 and tabletop123 like this.
  2. KokomoJoe4, Dec 30, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,061
    Likes Received:
    1,699
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    I suppose that practice can make nearly perfect, but I have always had trouble with the concept of practicing a random event, wondering, "what good can this do"? It seems to me to be an exercise in futility, but I could be wrong about this. ;)

    Now I realize that many a player (so-called DI's) will disagree. These guys (and gals) obviously do practice with the dice.

    I also know that there are players who shoot "better" than others - not always, but in general. Whether this is due to luck or skill I do not know.

    All that I do know is that a good shoot can be predicted and accomplished, but it can not be regularly guaranteed.

    Concerning method of play, some are better than others, with respect to the math of the game, but this does not at all mean that the lowest HE bet will produce the best results. Far from it, IT'S A CRAPSHOOT, anything can and will happen when at play with money on the table.
     
    #2
    yacraps and Twelve4s like this.
  3. eagleeye2, Dec 30, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    314
    Gender:
    Male
     
    #3

  4. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    2,158
    if a good shoot can be predicted, why would one continue to play if he couldn't predict a good shoot?

    so if you think you are going to shoot good and have a good roll, you slap yourself on the back and say, jeez, all that practice paid off.

    and if you shoot and have a bad roll, you say, well, nothing is guaranteed?
     
    #4
  5. eagleeye2, Dec 30, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    314
    Gender:
    Male

    KoKo,

    Two things to consider:

    1) As you state, good Rolls do NOT happen every time!

    2) But assuming that you Press in some way, your average will be in your favor, courtsey of Pressing on that Long Roll within the Group of Rolls!

    3) You gain an additional advantage, by Verifying & BETTING ON those #'s that HIT at Frequencies above that of the NORMAL DISTRIBUTION.

    4) Combining the above leads to one WINNING $$$.

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2
     
    #5
    James Hall likes this.

  6. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    2,158
    maybe I have it wrong, is it that DI shooting only works when there are numbers rolled, and doesn't work when the 7 out appears just as in random tosses?
     
    #6
  7. eagleeye2, Dec 30, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    314
    Gender:
    Male

    Liman,

    Sort of, bugt Re-Read the above Post RePeated below:

    KoKo,
    Two things to consider:
    1) As you state, good Rolls do NOT happen every time!
    2) But assuming that you Press in some way, your average will be in your favor, courtsey of Pressing on that Long Roll within the Group of Rolls!
    3) You gain an additional advantage, by Verifying & BETTING ON those #'s that HIT at Frequencies above that of the NORMAL DISTRIBUTION.
    4) Combining the above leads to one WINNING $$$.

    Now, Does it Make Sense Yet?
    eagleeye2
     
    #7
  8. KokomoJoe4, Dec 30, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,061
    Likes Received:
    1,699
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    When ahead, I am always pressing. Unfortunately, theses wagers are lost more often than they are won.

    Never having put any faith in an ability to "know" what is going to roll, I have always thought it best, when ahead, to risk a good bit (sometimes, at the start even all) of the "winnings" with the hope of hitting several in a row.

    When in a progression, I have never managed to hit more than 8 winners in a row - probably so few because they were always a line bet with max odds. Of course winnings are greater when the points made happen to be outside numbers.

    In the short time I have been experimenting with place or buy bets, haven't yet been able to get on a nice run of numbers. I will always collect the first hit just to ensure a winner, but often times, this doesn't even happen. Although I do not like to get on multiple numbers very often, I am not afraid to push a bet from one box number to another one that has been showing.
     
    #8
    yacraps likes this.
  9. tabletop123, Dec 30, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,347
    Likes Received:
    1,410
    Lol.
     
    #9
  10. James Hall, Dec 31, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    770
    Gender:
    Male
    KoK
    I have talked to thousands of craps players over the years . I have talked to people who mostly lose
    and I have talked to people who seem to mostly win .
    These two groups are so different in their mental approach to the game it is baffling
    The biggest problem the ones who seem to lose the most have is their inability to see and recognize
    a true opportunity , then if and when they do see and recognize it they are slow to take advantage of it
    They begin to late and they hold back , when they finally jump in it's too late
    I would love to have a dime for every time I heard someone say , "I SHOULD HAVE"

    Over the years I have watched people capitalize on a really good roll then lose back the winnings
    and most of the bankroll on 12 other players while the dice are making it around the table

    The biggest problems are :
    most players pay way too much attention to the math
    they wait too long to start their attack
    they play too conservatively when they do start
    they play the wrong bets and not enough of them

    the biggest killer I have seen is playing only two bets at a time
    I have seen so many times , a person betting pass line and two numbers in an attempt to limit losses

    while some guy has a good long roll , never makes the point and the very painfully conservative better lose money on the roll
    the biggest killer of all is the pass with odds and two come bets , that strategy is designed to limit losses
    and is exactly why I say "MANY PLAYERS PLAY NOT TO LOSE"
    The biggest key to winning
    is a person must get all the money on the table he can possibly get on their
    and he must get it on their in the shortest period of time possible
    but "HE MUST HAVE THAT MONEY BE HOUSE MONEY"
    with the betting strategies we use
    we have all our money back in the rack , have money on the table working and a profit
    I will not proof read this it is quite lengthy
    please forgive any errors
     
    #10
  11. eagleeye2, Dec 31, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    314
    Gender:
    Male
    Any Progression with an 8 HIT, would make up for numerous small losses, thereby making you a WINNER!

    eagleeye2
     
    #11
  12. KokomoJoe4, Dec 31, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,061
    Likes Received:
    1,699
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    I have always played craps with the idea that it is gambling. I have a chance to win, but odds are, I will probably lose.

    The reason for this thinking is supported by observation; Look around at the opulence in the typical casino - chandeliers, a multitude of employees, cages with hundreds of thousands of dollars, etc. Also. look at your own experiences there - more often you leave with less money in your pocket than you entered with.

    With things against you, if you want to win, you need to quit when you are ahead. If you want to win big, you have to use your recent winnings to get out bigger and bigger bets, AND you must hit these bets in sequence.

    The ONLY reason my record of play shows I am still a few bucks ahead after 12 1/2 years is the result of 8 or 9 sessions where successively progressed winners happened enough times in a row to turn 2 or 3 hundred into several thousand.

    In spite of this "success", there are so many small, losing sessions that the "success" is now nothing more than a pittance. But as a somewhat obscure politician once said, there is always hope. :confused:
     
    #12
    yacraps and Twelve4s like this.

  13. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    2,158
    hall, I hit the bubble for over 6 grand yesterday,(which I didn't post but when I read nonsense like I read before....) only betting pass, odds and 2 come with odds, keeping the house edge low, repeaters like crazy, I cleaned up.
    that's 2 trips in 5 days with great wins with only pass line and odds and come bets with odds.
    if you feel these are the worst bets, you know nothing about the game.
    preach your far fetched long shot betting strategy to dreamers and new comers to this game.

    real cash, not some stock picture. just lots of cash on my office floor.

    this is how you win. stick to low house edge bets and stay disciplined, don't worry about some schmuck who thinks because he hit a few hardways and yo bets hes going to clean up.
    long shot betters are losers. they just look good when it happens.
     

    Attached Files:

    #13
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  14. KokomoJoe4, Dec 31, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,061
    Likes Received:
    1,699
    Location:
    Cranberry Twp, PA
    You gotta love those off and on and off and on and off and on winning come bets!!
     
    #14
    yacraps likes this.
  15. James Hall, Dec 31, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    770
    Gender:
    Male
    it's great you won ,enough of those little wins will help the bottom line however omitting the come bets which must hit twice to collect once and replacing them with a better strategy
    would have netted you much more , that is the math that couns
    come bets are more or less a hedge type bet and reduce the total wins by quite a margin , the math more than proves that out
    if you feel it works for you there will be no changing your mind so carry on
    continued success in the future
     
    #15
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016

  16. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    2,158
    ya just keep wishing for another one, and it keeps coming, and you almost feel as if someone is playing a joke on you, especially at bubble, 40 inside numbers without a 7. come betters dream roll.
     
    #16
    yacraps and TDVegas like this.
  17. TDVegas, Dec 31, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    9,114
    Likes Received:
    2,604
    Monday morning quarterbacking what coulda, shoulda been done?
    Wow...who didn't see that coming?

    while you're at it....might as well also bet all those 12's that were rolled.
     
    #17
  18. James Hall, Dec 31, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    770
    Gender:
    Male
    you can call it Monday morning quarter backing if you desire , and tag on woulda , coulda shoulda if you like

    We call it REVIEWING PAST EVENTS , a more negative term might be learning from mistakes or even reinforcing the correct actions
    Learning in either case is what builds winners
    my coach years ago would call those "CHALK TALKS"
    A LOT OF WHAT IF'S
    what if you had delayed a half step ?
    what if you had swung farther left , and so on
    We even reviewed films
    a lot to be learned

    If I had been on the table throwing a lot of twelves , you can bet I would have been on them
     
    #18
  19. TDVegas, Dec 31, 2016

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    9,114
    Likes Received:
    2,604
    Yeah...well, one has to actually play craps to "learn from mistakes"...

    Liman plays...

    You?....jury is still out.

    Beyond all of that....reviewing past results (dice outcome) has no value for future dice outcomes. Keep dreaming though. Dreaming is good.
     
    #19
  20. tabletop123, Dec 31, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,347
    Likes Received:
    1,410
    I am gonna reply to the Topic......Intelligent Practice makes perfect! Once you have TRULY mastered a craft, or become incredibly proficient at it, practice becomes boring! Maybe I should say....Extensive or prolonged practice becomes unneccessary!

    I know that once I achieved a "Shortstop" status playing pool (a ball or two under World Class), competition was the ONLY thing that elevated my game!

    Same thing with tossing dice......At least for ME! I have practiced SO MUCH over the years that practice actually bores the shit out of me! If I practice tossing dice for more than 36 rolls, ONCE A WEEK, I get sloppy, & my toss goes to shit!

    Nowadays, I MIGHT practice for ten ROLLS before heading to the Casino! Most of the times, No practice.......I just show up & play! Now, I claim absolutely no influence but I DO CLAIM that my toss is unwavering in the Casinos & it gets worse when I practice!

    Don't know WHY I am this way, but I just seem to TOSS better when money is on the line! What is considered better? The uniformity ( tandem) that my dice travel mid air.........NOTHING ELSE!
     
    #20
    yacraps and Twelve4s like this.
Reminder: This is the Dice Influencing section.