If you only knew

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by superrick, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. superrick, Sep 12, 2018

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    #1
  2. KokomoJoe4, Sep 13, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Whether a fictional character or someone who actually existed, the Captain is a guy who fits the mold of the typical WWII vet.

    I know this because my father was one of them, and told me about the way things were for his generation, America's greatest!

    Many of these guys were hardcore crapsters, who also liked smokes, booze and women. Three of these four things were plentiful abundant in a barracks or on a ship.

    The thing about the Captain that is most certainly fictional is his evolution from a cagey veteran first identified by Frank Scoblete, who invented the Doey-Don't and the Five Count, and who usually won money at the tables, into the "Father of DI" and one of the worlds greatest shooters.

    If you are these things from the start, then these things need to be stated from the start. Instead the Captain graduated from a wiley player who could usually win playing "smart" craps into a dice controller who, along with the Arm, "won millions" at the tables, inventing skilled shooting and advantaged play.

    Co-incidentally, this conversion of the story behind the man just happened to coincide with the discovery and marketing of dice control, no let's call it dice influence, and the ability of entrepreneurs to convince their fellow dice fanatics that there is in fact skill involved with dice shooting that can be learned and taught, possibly for a price. :rolleyes:Scoblete obviously was heavily involved in this "business" for some time, and would stand to benefit from it with the relationship he describes having with the Captain.

    A second bitch of mine about DI, unrelated to the Captain but quite possibly involving his buddy Scoblete, is the concept of on-axis shooting to result in advantage play. I can show anyone with a hint of a brain that this concept can not and does not happen as it is described by its inventors, but don't necessarily want to get into this again, unless prodded to do so.

    LID, please put up some photos of the Captain and the Arm, but for Christ's sake, keep Barney off of your suppercomputer.
     
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  3. Dave G Ct, Sep 13, 2018

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Koko
    You are right in the description of On Axis shooting which should be changed to On Axis results!
     
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  4. KokomoJoe4, Sep 13, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Sorry Dave, but wrong. The dice are NOT staying on-axis anymore than 2% of the time.

    Think about it this way, which should make it obvious - I can show a shot that you and the "on-axis advocates" think is a primary face hit because of what shows on top, that is ACTUALLY off-axis. Please explain how a PFH can be off-axis, and good luck with the explanation.

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it, and then pass the pipe to LID and Dan Mahoney, a professional craps player.
     
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  5. superrick, Sep 13, 2018

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    Any good writer has to have a storyline. Some write with the truth others write with nothing but fiction. If you play all of the time and you have seen all of these DI's on the tables and you have half of a brain. You realize that what was being written was nothing but fiction!

    For Frank, it sold many books for the madprofessor it just fed his ego!

    You can read the madprofessors book on this link.

    https://www.dicesetter.com/mp/MP_toc.htm

    https://www.dicesetter.com/mp/dmad41questions.htm

    Sorry that I'm not about to feed you nothing but fiction and will tell it like it really is. With Frank and the rest of them I know that they fuged their roll numbers becasue one of his instructors told me so and also seeing them in a casino then reading what they wrote that didn't match up to what really happened!

    Look if you go to a table when these classes are in town and one of their students gets on a lucky roll, they created the best shooter ever. The problem with that is that when that guy gets home he can't fix what is going wrong. So he has to take another class and then another class.
     
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  6. twodicebilly, Sep 17, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Dave

    I agree with what you just said...….on axis throw is different than on axis finish.

    GTC always considered any shot that ended with a 2,3,4,5 on either die when your
    starting set was a hardway set, an on axis shot.

    that is their way to define it....whether I agree or not does not matter.

    As far as the Captain is concerned, I have no way of knowing who he was or if he was.....
    and it never mattered to me, I have read countless western paper backs in my hunting stand
    and I enjoyed them....they did not have to be real, and the famous author made tons of money
    off them.

    there is no reason at all why the captain could not have been real.....the tables were much
    different than ones we play on, a well thrown on axis shot had a much better chance of
    finishing with a 2,3,4,5 on each than they do today. If you actually paid attention to Frank
    many of the things you heard him say were different than that preached by many dice control
    guys. Frank did not say you had to always use the hardway set, Frank in fact indicated that
    for some people it was not the best selection of sets, Frank never said he won all the time
    and in fact some of his statements were of the trend type with limiting your number of
    bets on the table at any one time.

    Dave, there is a lot more to like about what Frank really said than some will give him
    credit for.

    tdb
     
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  7. James Hall, Sep 17, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Do you have any idea who arrived at that figure
    and how ??
     
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  8. lone irish digit, Sep 17, 2018

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney,

    I think the LID once told me it was the most greatest the nice Wichita Line Away Man.


    [​IMG]
     
    #8
  9. KokomoJoe4, Sep 17, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    note: pay attention to my use of parentheses, as they tend to indicate things that should be construed as bullshit.

    I assume that you know that the "teachers" of "on-axis shooting" use the "fact" that since there are 36 possible dice outcome displays, and that 16 of these outcome displays can be "shown" to be "primary face hits" with respect to the axis of rotation at set-up of the dice, that we all, yes even pitiful, random shooters such as myself, can expect to have 16/36 x 100 = 44.4% "on-axis outcomes" on average.

    These "teachers" might advise us that, for a price, they can instruct us to achieve higher than this 44.4% PFH success rate, thereby enabling us to be able to "win consistently" at the game of craps, possibly to the point of becoming an "advantage player".

    In reality, the 36 dice outcomes can and do display in 576 ways. The Wizard told me so, and I have observed this to be accurate. Each of the known 36 outcomes can display several different ways, and will almost certainly display as off-axis. The calculation is simple, it is 16/576 x 100 = 2.78%, not 44.4%.
     
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  10. James Hall, Sep 17, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Actually I have pretty much stayed away from
    what these guys teach because I have been working
    with people for some time and didn't want to have
    a situation come up where they would feel like I
    was getting into their territory What little bit
    I do know is what some of the people I have worked
    with have told me. Some of them have taken classes
    from some of the schools. Some of these guys have
    compared what I do with what the schools do.
    Short of that I know little of what they do.
    Some of the guys have had some good things
    to say about the schools .
     
    #10
  11. James Hall, Sep 17, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    I wasn't disputing the numbers , I was simply
    wondering who got them and how.
     
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  12. KokomoJoe4, Sep 18, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Numbers do not dispute that people can and do shoot the dice well at times.

    All that they say is that dice do not stay on-axis, regardless of who is tossing them. THIS CAN EASILY BE SHOWN TO BE TRUE, and seeing is believing.

    As a result, those people pitching the use of "on-axis shooting" to succeed at craps are full of shit. This is the only point I wish to make on the subject.

    Again, many an "on-axis shooter" might have a great roll or two or three. Fantastic, but this is NOT due to their skilled axis control.
     
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  13. KokomoJoe4, Sep 18, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Hope my memory is good, it's been several years, but to get an intro to Linaway's description of the dice, see old threads 'Dice Heirarchy' and 'Shoulder Computer'.

    There are no doubt a lot of other threads, but thinking about what was brought up in these two prompted me to contact Linaway to learn more of what he identified in the dice.

    I do not believe that there is, but trust me, IF there is a way to beat the game of craps, it will involve an understanding of Linaway's heirarchy in dice, which relates the numbers paying on top to both the "safety" in dice and to their three dimensional set.

    Love it LID, that smoke comes out of the mouth for no man ( and I hope no woman either).
     
    #13
  14. James Hall, Sep 18, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    I am not sure I could disagree with any of
    this.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  15. Twelve4s, Sep 18, 2018

    Twelve4s

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    08618DBF-F4F7-47C8-B0B6-10D9EB1EFAE1.jpeg
     
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  16. random_roller, Sep 18, 2018

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

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    Wait, someone making claims about his/her proficiency at shooting dice might be full of shit? :rolleyes:o_O
     
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  17. James Hall, Sep 18, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    MIGHT BE??? Sounds a bit like speculation.
    or wait, maybe they aren't .
     
    #17
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